🚀 go-pugleaf

"Clyde Slick" <YustabeSlim@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:42d5bc9e_2@spool9-east.superfeed.net
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:0PqdnSrA4IIdKkjfRVn-pw@comcast.com...
>> "Clyde Slick" <YustabeSlim@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:42d5936e$1_3@spool9-east.superfeed.net
>>> "Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in
>> message
>>> news:qugad1115f79e80qov7uljipf50cvcvlna@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:51:42 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
>>>> <YustabeSlim@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in
>> message
>>>>> news:scc9d1h83hel4v8u5goe1plhnohbe2t8ek@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:45:15 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
>>>>>> <YustabeSlim@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Howard Ferstler" <ferstle@attglobal.net> wrote in
>> message
>>>>>>> news:42D47BFB.8C63757F@attglobal.net...
>>>>>>>> Clyde Slick wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote
in
>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>> news:eqm6d1p2dotgtu1j7vhck3gie5t6sbs3qk@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On 11 Jul 2005 17:27:35 -0700,
>> calcerise@hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Arny isn't too keen on actually listening to
audio
>>>>>>>>>>> products, since they should all sound the same
>>>>>>>>>>> according to tests.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In level-matched blind listening tests, these
three
>>>>>>>>>> players sound identical - as any reasonable
person
>>>>>>>>>> would expect.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Damn it, there are those pesky expectation effects
>> again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are just trying to rationalize the fact that
you
>>>>>>>> simply must have something exotic and esoteric to
>> believe
>>>>>>>> in. (That this involves audio gear and not some
kind
>> of
>>>>>>>> religious deity and a need for salvation shows a
>>>>>>>> monumental smallness of mind.) That you place
>> expectation
>>>>>>>> effects higher up on the scale than simply not
>> hearing
>>>>>>>> differences during a DBT says more about you as a
>> true
>>>>>>>> believer than it does about any kind of audio gear.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take a good look at the test methodology, it only
>> accounts
>>>>>>> for eliminating one side of the expectation effects,
>> the
>>>>>>> expectation that there will be differences. It does
>> not
>>>>>>> address eliminating expectation
>>>>>>> effects, based upon an expectation that they will
>> sound
>>>>>>> the same. Thus, this so-called "unbiased" test is
>> actually
>>>>>>> quite biased towards producing your "expected"
>> results.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bullshit. Those tests are taken by people from both
>> sides
>>>>>> of the fence. The results are the same, only the
>> reactions
>>>>>> vary! :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That they are taken by people from both sides is
>> irrelevant.
>>>>> Its the test design  that skews the results, so that
>> they
>>>>> tend to be the same
>>>>
>>>> Still the same old mantra, eh Sackman? The results do
>> indeed
>>>> tend to be the same. That's because most decent
equipment
>>>> really does sound the same, whatever guillible fools
like
>> you
>>>> would like to believe.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, it sounds the same to people who have
>>> preconceived notions that it will sound the same.
>>
>> I just showed how we can use ABX tests to identify people
>> who are prone towards false negatives.
>>
>
> that's not relative to preconceived notions about
> the particular two items to be tested.

The listener in an ABX test need not know what the
particular items being tested are, exactly.

Art, what is unclear to you about the phrase "Bind Test"?

The answer to that question is obviously: LOTS!