Thread View: rec.org.sca
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Started by Beth Appleton
Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:49
Heraldic Questions...
Author: Beth Appleton
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:49
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:49
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CX> from--but what do you say
CX> to Miklos or Vajk, two serious, authenticity-minded
CX> people who are forbidden to
CX> pass heraldry appropriate to their persona? You're
CX> making them combine French
CX> heraldry with their Hungarian everything else, and
CX> creating the very problem
CX> you're trying to solve.
I don't *think* this is the exact problem. It is actually possible to
create armory quite consistant with the current rules, which also
reflects national character. We are denying the Hungarians one
specific charge -- which is only found in their culture -- not the
remainder of their armory. Check the device of Jan w'Orzeldom (sp)
for polish-style armory which is completely legal within the current
rules of the College of Arms, for example.
Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
* Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Re: Heraldic Questions...
Author: Josh Mittleman
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:11
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:11
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Greetings from Arval! Gwenllian wrote: > We are denying the Hungarians one specific charge -- which is only found > in their culture -- not the remainder of their armory. I'm afraid you are incorrect. Lord Laurel discussed this charge in the cover letter to his latest LoAR and observed that the green mount on a blue field is found throughout Europe. He returned a submission using it, despite extensive documentation. His argument, which I find moderately more palatable than Tadhg's (though no more convincing), is that he must be careful not to allow too many exceptions to the standard style rules, lest the rule system become too complex to be usable. This is the "poor, dumb, local herald" argument, which starts by insulting our officers and populace in assuming that they are too stupid to understand that a complicated art cannot be reduced to idiot-proof rules, and continues to insult the entire Society by concluding that the only solution is to reduce everything to the lowest common denominator. Your statement, Gwenllian, is also somewhat deceptive, as it suggests that the elimination of the green mount + blue field is only a minor inconvenience for SCAdians with Hungarian personae. That combination occurs in well over 80% of all recorded Hungarian armory (according to research by Stefan Laskowski). The effect is comparable to telling people with English persona that they MUST put color on color: It forbids them the most appropriate practice for their personae. =========================================================================== Arval Benicoeur mittle@watson.ibm.com
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