🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <IfLiGe600WB98iAXsl@andrew.cmu.edu> lv08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lili
Velez) writes:

>Is there something inherently _wrong_ about being a truck driver?  Must we
>be disappointed in someone who _wants_ to be a beautician, a cook, a
>mechanic?

I certainly hope not.  Doing something you enjoy well generally benefits
everyone, including the doer.

>Yes, I completely understand being distressed when someone believes that one
>career or another is the "only job they could ever be suited for, so
>why try...?".  Abandoned or misguided potential is a tremendous loss, to
>both the person and the society which has to trundle on without their
>contributions -- but it seems to me that we can brand careers ('vocations'?)
>as unworthy or `below us' just as easily as we can brand children.

Sure.  It's the self-justification of someone who has advanced degrees and
can't fix a radiator.  Why should s/he care about radiators and those who
can fix them?  If s/he can't do it, it's not worth doing.  The converse is
also true--why should the mechanic care about Hegel's philosophy?  Humans
are self-centered as a consequence  of being pretty good survivors.  However,
this means we tend to care the least about the things we personally do the
worst.  And stereotypes about intellect persist...we use "blue-collar" and
"white-collar" as endpoints of a range, as if the more you work with your
hands, the less well your brain functions.

Laurie Gelb
laurie@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu

Uncle Sam wants YOU...
to pay your taxes, obey his laws, and keep your mouth shut.

In <IfLiGe600WB98iAXsl@andrew.cmu.edu> Lili Velez <lv08+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:


>Is there something inherently _wrong_ about being a truck driver?  Must we
>be disappointed in someone who _wants_ to be a beautician, a cook, a
>mechanic?

I definitely agree.  And I'll bring the discussion a little closer to home. 
I have (since the day that I started college) wanted to be a High School
science teacher.  I am currently a graduate student at the Kansas State
Physics department, with my area of specialty being Physics Education.

You would not believe how many times I have encountered fallen faces of
Professors and peers who all ask the same question, "You're so intelligent,
why would you want to do something like teach high school."    Well, the
answer is, because: A) Somebody's got to do it.  B) I know I'm good at it.
and C) It gives me emotional and intellectual satisfaction  (i.e. I enjoy
doing it).

So how is this any different from looking down ones nose at truck drivers or
mechanics or other service employee's.  The fact of the matter is, the level
of education needed to compete for and sucessfully complete these jobs is
increasing every day.  To my way of thinking, fixing cars is a much more
self-actualizing way to live than scurrying around a law-library
photocopying articles for people. 

-David Iverson
--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu

In article <IfLiGe600WB98iAXsl@andrew.cmu.edu> lv08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lili Velez) writes:
>Is there something inherently _wrong_ about being a truck driver?  Must we
>be disappointed in someone who _wants_ to be a beautician, a cook, a
>mechanic?
>
>Yes, I completely understand being distressed when someone believes that one
>career or another is the "only job they could ever be suited for, so
>why try...?".  Abandoned or misguided potential is a tremendous loss, to
>both the person and the society which has to trundle on without their
>contributions -- but it seems to me that we can brand careers ('vocations'?)
>as unworthy or `below us' just as easily as we can brand children.

What an interesting set of examples.  I don't know about truck driver,
but I've know beauticians, cooks, and mechanics who are interesting,
creative people, not to mention carpenters, tool & die makers, autobody
repairers, farmers and electricians.  It never occured to me to aspire
to any of these careers, partly because I was a girl and partly because
I was going to college...I might well be happier as a mechanic.  My
partner certainly loves being one.

I try to let my kids know that honest work is fine.  Honest work that
one loves is best.  It's also important to be able to make enough money
to cover one's needs.  

(oh, yeah, I've also taken my share of flack for choosing a "blue collar
type" as a partner, just to show how pervasive this bias it, but we get on ok.)
Susan
susan@varian.com

Lili Velez (lv08+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:
: I teach.  I want all of my students to become critical thinkers, to be
: creative in the fields they pursue and the lives they lead outside of their
: work.  But there's been something that's bothered me about this "Branding
: Kids" thread, and the last message from MIT (forgive me; I can't see the
: message I'm responding to, but I remember it was an athena address) crystal-
: lized it for me.
: 
: Is there something inherently _wrong_ about being a truck driver?  Must we
: be disappointed in someone who _wants_ to be a beautician, a cook, a
: mechanic?

Would you be disappointed if all a person wanted to do is to be a
paperweight?

: Yes, I completely understand being distressed when someone believes that one
: career or another is the "only job they could ever be suited for, so
: why try...?".

But why do they believe that? Why can't they believe that they are
suited only to test Her Majesty's new thoroughbread racers? I can't
explain it. Some people are afraid to lose, are afraid of hard work.
Some people just don't want to. Who knows? Perhaps they will try if
they are called on to do something that no one else is doing. It shows
them that they have the attention of others (though they don't get
Scott free). No matter what people think they're suited for, they
have to try. No one is anything without trying.

: Abandoned or misguided potential is a tremendous loss, to
: both the person and the society which has to trundle on without their
: contributions -- but it seems to me that we can brand careers ('vocations'?)
: as unworthy or `below us' just as easily as we can brand children.
: 
: Come to think of it, I have an an example of this in my own family.  I'm
: finishing my PhD.  I've always loved academics (give or take some horrible
: moments in my mathematics education, but I'm about ready to repair that
: damage).  My brother has managed with his academics, but his goal was never
: a college career, it was to be a police officer (local or state trooper).
: My parents wanted him to go to college (particularly my mother, who was much
: more open than my father about saying that "Erik, you could be so much
: _more_ than just a police officer!").  The local police officers tried
: steering him away from the idea, telling him he could really do a lot
: better than a career in law enforcement.  What's going on here?

If criminals get smarter, cops will have to get smarter. People have
to be willing to extend themselves. Well, someone is willing and may
step on you if you are not.

: Someone has to drive the trucks and repair the wiring which makes our
: pleasant academic discussions possible.  I know that this bboard is for
: discussions of science and education, but there are sociological aspects
:  to how and why people become 'educated' --- would it be easier to convince
: the ordinary majority of citizens to support educational initiatives to
: improve education in the sciences if we demonstrated that we respected who
: they are and what they do with their lives?

Or would the opposite work? What is the prize behind door A? B? C?
Step right up. Today could be your lucky day.

--

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca

What rolls down stairs alone or in pairs            This has been brought to 
Rolls over your neighbor's dog?                     you by the numbers 4
What's great for a snack and fits on your back?     and 9 and the letter P.
It's Log, Log, Log!  -- "The Log Song", from            -- Big Bird
                         Ren & Stimpy

Math is tough!       -- Barbie