🚀 go-pugleaf

I finally decided to actually grab a dictionary, count the radicals,
and try to decipher what Julie Vaux asked.

I have to say it would be much easier if the shapes of the radicals
in question were described (in pictures, not in words). The ordering
of radicals seem to have minor variations among dictionaries, not
to mention that I have never seen radicals numbered; it is "lucky"
that (say) R. 8 is actually / t@u += / in my dictionary.

Pronunciations are whatever I recall, as taught when I was still in
primary school. I can't verify my own pronunciations, let alone any
variant pronunciations, until I can get a new dictionary that has
pronuncation of radicals.

I hope people with better tools or knowledge than I can pick up
where I left off.

Dictionaries used:

[1] ~{VX1`9zSo4G5d~}. Ministry of Education, ROC. ROC: Commercial
    Press of Taiwan, 1970. [Only Mandarin pronunciatons are given,
    but it gives some etymology or at least examples, and it lists
    related compounds.]

[2] ~{PBWV5d~}. Hong Kong: Kwong Chi Book Co. [This is a very old
    pocket dictionary that doesn't use IPA, doesn't give etymology
    or examples or indicate part of speech, but it lists all
    radicals as separate entries.]

In article <4a5gam$896@aladdin.iii.org.tw>,
Zhong Qiyao  <zhong@accton.com.tw> wrote:
>     I would suggest you ask a Cantonese friend instead of posting
>it to the network.  There is a list of proposed I.P.A. spelling for
>Cantonese and Mandarin posted in "sci.lang" a weew ago.
>
>jvaux@metz.une.edu.au (Julie Vaux) wrote:
>>	R. 8 the lid -- in a reprint of an old missionary dictionary 
>>			I found a note that its called t'au or luk 
>>			can anyone confirm this?
>
>     Tone symbol guide: = ping / shang \ qu | ru, - yin * zhong + yang.
>[...]

"t'au" (/ t@u += /, written ~{Ay~} minus ~{0K~} [sorry, impossible to
input in both HZ or Big5]) indeed exists as a radical; [2] lists it as
the archaic form of ~{M7~} (head), but is not currently considered a
standalone character.

>>	r.17 the HOLE  - is this KAM?KAN written with a different
>>			character in modern writing?
>[...]

R. 17 is ~{PW~} minus X (the |_| shape) in [1], which is pronounced
/ h@m +\ /. [2] lists it as meaning "open the mouth" (part of speech
not indicated), but is not currently considered a standalone character.

>>	r.22 are there cantonese words meaning the following - 
>>		hong - hollow  or hop - box?
>[...]
                                         _
R.22 in [1] is ~{7K~} minus ~{7G~} (the |_ which is not rounded at
the bottom), pronounced / fong -= /. This appears to be a dialectic
character according to [2], meaning "container" [I will claim that
Cantonese is not a dialect that uses this word]; [1] gives the same
definition, (n.) "container", without saying that its use is
restricted to dialects:

~{!>C{!?J"No5DFw>_#,<{K5ND!#~}

>>	r.23 is HIde/conceal ni or an in cantonese?
>[...]
                                         _
R.22 in [1] is ~{Gx~} minus ~{F7~} (the |_ which is rounded at
the bottom), pronounced / h@i += /. This is a stand-alone word,
but used very rarely, probably archaic. [1] defines it as (v.)
"to cover sth." while [2] defines t as "to cover sth. in order
to hide it" (to conceal).

>>	26 - the joint/section/node - one dictionary says tsit ?!
>>		whats the modern cantonese equivalent of jie in >manadarin?
>[...]

R.26 in [1] is the right part of ~{<4~}, indeed pronounced
/ dzit -\ /. It is a stand-alone word, but used very rarely,
probably archaic. [2] defines it as the archaic form of ~{=Z~},
while [1] says (probably same as [2], but I can't understand)

~{!>C{!?9EJ15D7{=Z#,HpPE~}

>>	27 the cliff or slope wide - han or guang in mandarin = ?
>[...]

R.27 in [1] is ~{:q~} minus ~{HU~} minus ~{WS~}, pronounced
/ hOn -\ /. It is a stand-alone word, but used very rarely,
probably archaic. [2] defines it as "an inhabitable cave at
the hillside". [1] gives a similar definition:

~{!>C{!?I=1_?IRTW!HK5D!u64~}
[~{!u~} is ~{QB~} minus ~{I=~}, lost in the Big5-HZ translation.]

Note that there happens to be a "simplified" character of the
same shape, with a completely different pronunciation/meaning.

>>	89 - mix shears yao = ??
>[...]

R.89 in [1] seems to be ~{X3~}. It has to do with ~{0KXT~} and
has nothing to do with mix or shears.

>>	105 outspread or climbing legs / climb = ?
>[...]

R.105 in [1] seems to be ~{9o~} minus ~{Ll~}. It is a standalone
word, but rarely used, probably archaic. Both [1] and [2] define
it as (adj.) "like outspread legs"; from [1]:

~{!>PN!?A==EUE?*5DQyWS#,<{?(!uLu~}

~{?(!u    A==EOrMbMdGz#,Hg!8?(!uVxMH6yMyG0W_!#!9~}
~{?(!u55  A=Lu4sMHV.<d#,Hg!8K{0Q6+Nw<PTZ?(!u55@o!#!9~}
                                              ^^ can't input in HZ
>>	r.204 zhi or feng - to sew = cantonese ?
>[...]

R.204 seems to be ~{mi~}. It seems to be pronounced / dzi -/ /
according to [2], listing the compound ~{Ukmi~} (sewing [n.]),
which is (assuming the pronunciation is right) indeed still a
frequently-used word in Cantonese (although I doubt anyone
actually know how to write this character).

>>	r. 205 what is the cantonese term for frog toad or amphibian?
>>		Min meng or mian ???
>[...]

R.205, if I still counted correctly up to 204, seems to be the
right half of ~{I~~} (impossible to input in both HZ and Big5).
It is a standalone word, but rarely used, probably archaic.

Both [1] and [2] defines it as (v.) "to encourage"; [1] also says
it is used in the name of a historical place. From [1] (using ~{!u~}
to denote R.205):

~{!>6/!?Cc@x#,<{!uCcLu!#~}

~{!uCc  Cc@x!"E,A&#,Hg!8!uCcM,PD#,2;RKSPE-!##(J+#.Z}7g#.9H7g#)R`WwcICc!#~}
~{!u3X  !>5X!?::OXC{#,<4=q:SDOJ!dE3XOX!#~}

So it has nothing to do with frog, toad, or amphibian; it's not
even a noun, except as part of a proper noun.

[This exercise really put the HZ and Big5 encoding schemes through
rigorous tests; a lot of characters are simply not representable.]

-- 
Ambrose C. Li ~{@h>tHY~}
                               ~  byron is my Linux box; io.org is my
<@io.org:acli@byron.net4>      ~ `Internet service bureau', not where
<ai337@freenet.toronto.on.ca>  ~  I work.