🚀 go-pugleaf

olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony) wrote:
>In <1996Dec8.164703.152791@forest> jnunner@forest.drew.edu (jeff
>nunner) writes: 
>>
>>Hey... my friend's grandmother once taught me a Hungarian (Magyar,
>even?)
>>saying which was the Anglo-equivalent of "the boy who cried wolf".  In
>>English, it was loosely translated as "The girl got up one morning and
>>didn't want to go to school, so she said her toe hurt, but her mother
>>found out and made her go anyway."  And it's pronounced: (my ASCII IPA
>>isn't perfect. Please be gentle with flames...)
>>
>>	[IS kilaba fail lalaba xUzai nEmi nEmfai SEmi]
>>
>>If anyone could help me and tell me how to spell it in Hungarian and a
>
>>more exact English-translation, I would really appreciate it.  Thanks!
>

Lassuk csak! Iskola'ba fel a lala'ba hazamenni nem fa'j semmi (?)
                       ^^^ (I think this "fel" or "fail" as is originally 
typed should be "faj") 

                

What the??? I think the translation would roughly fall along the lines of 
"One hurts its leg going to school, one doesn't hurt anything by going 
home" Not quite "a boy who cried wolf" but maybe my own translation is 
screwed up. 
>
>I think you have parts of the pronunciation slightly wrong.   The
>Hungarian for "to school" is "iskolaba".   (I believe the "-ba" ending
>means "to").

"-ba"/"-be" suffixes roughly corresponds to "into" or "to" prepositions. 
"-ra"/"-re" or "-nak"/"-nek" roughly corresponds to "to" or "for" 
prepositions.
>
>So the first word would be "Iskolaba", one word.  Now my Hungarian
>isn't very good; the only way I know this is my contact with a
>long-time ex-girlfriend who is Hungarian, with her family, and from our
>travels in Hungary.   The last word, "semi" is pronounced "SHEM-mi" and
>means "nothing".   I really doubt the whole English sentence you wrote
>above could be translated into that short a phrase in Hungarian.  
>Although Hungarian is a (somewhat?) agglutinative language (like
>Turkish), it generally uses no fewer words to express thoughts than
>most other European languages.   I realize Hungarian is not rooted in
>European languages, that its roots are in north Asia (specifically
>western Siberia, which is now part of Russia).   But actually, I found
>Hungarian quite easy to learn, much easier than, say, Russian, which is
>supposedly closer to most other languages of Europe (being of the
>Indo-European family).  The pronunciation of Hungarian is very
>straightforward; the diacritics and spelling rules are a bit peculiar,
>but very consistant.  Hungarian doesn't have many unpronounceable
>sounds, like Russian or Czech.   You have to get used to accenting the
>first syllable on EVERY word in Hungarian, no matter how long the word
>is.   For instance, the name of the country is "Magyarorszag", accented
>on the "MA".   There are even words much longer, but still accented on
>that first syllable.   To me, Hungarian was so easy to pick up that I
>would often string together my own sentences using vocabulary I had
>picked up, and conjugating my own verbs ad hoc according to the rules I
>had absorbed -- and actually be UNDERSTOOD by the Hungarians around me!
>
>Another amazing thing I have observed:  the striking similarity in
>sound between Hungarian and Turkish, to those who (like myself) speak
>neither language.   Somewhere, a long time ago, I may have read that
>Hungarian was somehow related to Turkish; but I cannot find such
>references now -- it seems the only other modern language of any
>importance related to Hungarian is Finnish.   Nevertheless, I have
>Turkish neighbors and I am amazed at the similarity of the "sound" of
>Hungarian and Turkish!   
>
>The grammatical rules are pretty consistent.   Interestingly, though
>Hungarian is an Asiatic (Finno-Ugric) language, its grammatical rules
>seem to roughly parallel those of Western, Indo-European languages.  
>For instance, there is a consistent infinitive verb form, marked by the
>suffix "-ni" in most cases.   You conjugate verbs much like you do,
>say, in the Romance languages:  I want to eat is "En akkarak enni" --
>"en" is "I", akkarak is the first person singular of the verb "to
>want", the "-ak" ending denoting the proper conjugated form.   The verb
>"to eat" appears in its infinitive form, immediately after the verb "I
>want".   This is EXACTLY like French, Spanish, and Italian!   To me,
>that's an amazing coincidence, given that Hungarian isn't even remotely
>related to those languages.   

Originally, Magyar was more of a SOV language however, its word order is 
very free and only one golden rule is followed in word order, emphasis.

Ex. E'n akarok enni = I want to eat ("I" and only "I" - no one else)

Ja'nos egy haza't ke'rek = John is looking for a HOUSE (and nothing else)

Ja'nos ke'rek egy haza't = JOHN is looking for a house (and nobody else)

Ke'rek egy haza't = I'm LOOKING for a house (I'm looking for a house 
only - not doing anything else with it like painting or wrecking it.)

>I could go on with my observations about Hungarian....does anyone out
>there have an explanation for these seeming coincidences?   Can anyone
>provide other examples of striking similarities between Hungarian and
>Indo-European languages?
>
>Tony

Latin: uxor (wife)
Magyar: asszony (madam)

English: copy
Magyar: ke'p (picture, portrait)

English: sister / German: Schwester / French: soeur / Latin: soror
Magyar: szu"z (virgin)

English: night / German: Nacht / French: nuit / Latin: nox
Magyar: nyugat (west - where the sun sets giving way to NIGHT)

English: sigh
Magyar: sohajtozik

English: milk / German: milch
Magyar: mell (breast)

English: water / German: Wasser / Russian: vod
Magyar: vi'z

English: seven / German: Sieben / French: sept / Greek: hepta
Magyar: he't

English: ten / Latin: deci / French: dix
Magyar: ti'z

Remember the centum/saetum theory of the I-E languages??? (centum = 
saetum = "hundred")
Magyar: sza'z

English: berry
Magyar: eper (strawberry - this match is very questionable)

Greek: Pyros (fire - connatation of fire)
Magyar: piros (red)

French: four (oven)
Magyar: forro' (burning)

Russian: chetirye (four)
Magyar: csu:to:rto:k (Thursday - fourth day of the week)

Greek: penta (five)
Magyar: pe'ntek (Friday - fifth day of the week)

English: fair
Magyar: fehe'r (white)

French: fils (son)
Magyar: fiu' (boy)

Latin: qui (who) / French: qui (who)
Magyar: ki (who)

French: tu (you - personal pronoun)
Magyar: te (you - 2nd person pronoun)

English: me, I (1st personal pronoun)
Magyar: "-m" suffix (this "-m" suffix is used in many cases - ex. 
"enni" = to eat "esz-em" = I eat. The "-m" suffix is also used to denote 
possession by the first person ex. "ko:nyv" = book "a ko:nyv-em = my 
book.)

English: we
Magyar: mi

English: see
Magyar: szem (eye)

Latin: sem (seed - English derivative = semen)
Magyar: szem (seed - not "eye" in this context)

English: ewe
Magyar: juh (goat, lamb - I think this match is a fluke)

English: suck
Magyar: szi'v (heart, it sucks in)

English: volcano / Latin: Vulcan (God of Fire)
Magyar: meleg (hot - where the "m" sound is related to the "v" sound)

Hindu: ektu (one)
Magyar: egy (pronounced e-dy)

Farsi (Iranian): hezar (thousand)
Magyar: ezer (thousand)

I'm not one to say that the ancient Magyars borrowed or derived a lot of 
their words from I-E languages (in fact I think its the other way 
around!) but these correspondences are interesting and a few of 
Greenburg's Norstratic advocates would find these words useful in 
boosting a Norstratic language family (Indo-European, Turanian and the 
Paleo-Siberian language families as one large superfamily). I personally 
believe that the ultimate root of Magyar is Sumerian and that several 
ethno-linguistic families including Indo-European and Turanian recieved 
strong influence from the Sumerians during History. However, based on my 
readings and understanding of Magyar history and ancient history, I 
believe that the modern Hungarians are a Sumerian-related people if not 
direct descendants of them. I am aware that I am being laughed at but I 
genuinely believe this to be true and I'm not forcing anyone to believe 
me...

Cheers,

Peter Chong