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Article #5419Re: hungarian/magyar dichotomy
From: Adam Jacobs
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:00
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:00
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2492 bytes
In article <3918bbfb.12578766@news.sprint.ca>, Gustav Horvath <turan@sprint.ca> wrote: >On 9 May 2000 21:47:46 GMT, ajk@socrates.berkeley.edu (Adam Jacobs) >wrote: > >>It very likely does come from the Hungarian toponym Kocs (with *no* accent >>grave over the "o" -- Hungarian doesn't even employ the accent grave). The >>wagons made there were called kocsi szekerek 'wagons from Kocs'; later the >>word kocsi alone came to refer to the town's most famous product. Hence G. >>Kutsche, etc. etc. > >In what year was the kocs-i kocsi was supposedly invented? > >Gustav In or before the 15th century, one would imagine. MNyTESz(*) has a citation from 1493, in Latin: "Item Curriferis kochiensibus qui de Buda huc Agriam cum familia mea duxerant dedy den. IIIC" which I read: "Item. To the coachman of Kocs who brought me here with my family from B. to A. I gave 300 denarii" -- presumably a line in the writer's accounts-book. Here of course the reference is to a coachman, not a coach, from Kocs (kocsi kocsis nem kocsi kocsi!) but obviously by then the kocsi kocsi[s] had some reputation. 1494 obliges with a citation, again in Latin, this time referring to the coach itself: "..Unum Currum Kochy.." Thereafter there are Hungarian citations for "kocsi szeker" and then "kocsi" aplenty. There follows a fairly long article detailing the semantic development of the word. I don't have time to type it in and translate now but if anyone is *really* interested I can do so. Adam Jacobs UCLA (*) A magyar nyelv torteneti-etimologiai szotara, II. k. H-\'O (Historical- etymological dictionary of the Hungarian language, vol. 2: H-\'O). Akademiai kiado, Budapest, 1970.
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X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 10a20a,47278deef0df2ec X-Google-Attributes: gid10a20a,public X-Google-Thread: 1006f7,99bef44b334b0bff X-Google-Attributes: gid1006f7,public From: ajk@socrates.berkeley.edu (Adam Jacobs) Subject: Re: hungarian/magyar dichotomy Date: 2000/05/10 Message-ID: <8fccn3$i23$1@agate.berkeley.edu> X-Deja-AN: 621693374 References: <8f7ah7$3qq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39180E19.4FD5B0B8@lvnworth.com> <8fa122$8sa$1@agate.berkeley.edu> <3918bbfb.12578766@news.sprint.ca> X-Complaints-To: abuse@berkeley.edu X-Trace: agate.berkeley.edu 957986339 18499 128.32.25.13 (10 May 2000 19:18:59 GMT) Organization: University of California at Berkeley NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 May 2000 19:18:59 GMT Newsgroups: sci.lang,hun.nyelv