🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1992Jul28.124428@sicsun.epfl.ch> dubuf@sicsun.epfl.ch (Hans DU BUF) writes:

>Last week or so when someone started the discussion about the Norwegian
>"scientific" need for killing whales, [..]

This was me.

>Yesterday I read in my Dutch newspaper (NRC/Handelsblad) that an
>initiative has led to the collection of 2,500,000 signatures from 63
>countries agaist Spanish bullfights, and that these have been offered to
>some Spanish representative.
>Unfortunately, I have missed this initiative, else it would be 2,500,001.

Very noble from you to be against bullfights, I'm also against. But --
pleeease, don't confuse bulls with whales. It is not helpful for either
if you put in the same discussion. I'm against bullfights because this is
killing for (some unnatural) pleasure, and I'm against whale killing since
at least some of the whale species (dolphins and orcas) are intelligent AND
nobody really needs to kill/eat whales: Norwegians, Japanese, Icelanders,
and Faroeer Islanders have enough fish, beef, pork, lamb, chicken, etc.

Another interesting point MIGHT well be that some whalers perhaps think of
themselves as quasi-matadors or some kind of "heroic sportsmen". Since 
whales don't even try to defend themselves (contrary to bulls), this is 
totally misleading -- whale killing is also coward and dangerous only for 
stupid whalers.
--
 Hartmut Frommert, Physics, Univ of Constance, | + Whale killing is murder. +
 P.O.Box 55 60, D-W-7750 Konstanz, Germany     | + Eat whale killers.       +
 E-Mail: <phfrom@dknkurz1.bitnet> or <phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de>
+    "Windows NoT" expands in German to "Windows Noch Teurer"
+                                                ^even   ^more expensive

In article <1992Jul28.124428@sicsun.epfl.ch> dubuf@sicsun.epfl.ch (Hans DU BUF) writes:
>Yesterday I read in my Dutch newspaper (NRC/Handelsblad) that an
>initiative has led to the collection of 2,500,000 signatures from 63
>countries agaist Spanish bullfights, and that these have been offered to
>some Spanish representative.

Isn't this attempting to impose your culture on someone else?
--
Hi! Ani mutacia shel virus .signature. Ha`atek oti letoch .signature shelcha!

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)

In article <1992Jul28.184456.2733@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>, arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul28.124428@sicsun.epfl.ch> dubuf@sicsun.epfl.ch (Hans DU BUF) writes:
|> >Yesterday I read in my Dutch newspaper (NRC/Handelsblad) that an
|> >initiative has led to the collection of 2,500,000 signatures from 63
|> >countries agaist Spanish bullfights, and that these have been offered to
|> >some Spanish representative.
|> 
|> Isn't this attempting to impose your culture on someone else?
|> --

Yep, so what (apart from the fact that many Spanish people don't like it
themselves). Like "intellectuals" (I hate this word) should take their
responsability in TRYING to suppress stupid habits in their own country,
there exists the same responsability between countries. Of course, I am
sometimes too optimistic, look only what happens in Turkey, the most
disgusting country in the NATO, to people instead of to just animals.
What a shame, and that's only one example.

Also, responding to the reply from Frommert who started this discussion
and who wants to keep a special status for whales because of their
intelligence in contrast to bulls: I think that mankind, after I don't
know how many millennia of intellectual evolution (don't laugh, I know it
is ridiculous), has to decide to respect nature and to keep their hands off
all animals including their biotopes. The question is then where to put
the limit if any: for example, horses may be more intelligent than cows
and are not consumed in many countries, but there are at least no horse-
fights as far as I know and the killing is hidden away in slaughterhouses.

I don't want to continue this discussion because of the many political
and cultural aspects involved, not to speak off ethical aspects. Apart
from intelligence, which I don't accept as the only valid argument, there
are no reasons to kill whales. All products have substitutes now, and
they can eat as much krill as they want, whatever the consequences for
our fishing industry. And if the Norwegian government is fooled by the
industrial lobby, we have also to attack that industry: boycott!