🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1993Jan10.203936.607@news.wesleyan.edu>, RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
|> In <1993Jan10.234752.4562@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com writes:
|> > Ah, but do you ask them why they want to get a graduate degree in
|> > philosophy? I would caution all and sundry that your motives had best not
|> > include making a living as a philosopher.
|>  
|> Well, even if I forget to give that particular speech, the APA won't.  It still
|> asks graduate departments to send to all applicants that dreary & discouraging
|> form letter that says, roughly, "You think you're gonna get a JOB in
|> philosophy?  HA Ha ha hahahahahahahahahahaha......"  So if a student applies to
|> 10 schools, 10 copies of that letter show up.  Blah!  I'm surprised ANYONE ever
|> decides to go to grad school in philosophy.

This has bothered me for some years.  What bothers me is that the explicit
impression the APA has been giving (for almost 20 years now?) is that
the the only reason for pursuing a graduate degree in philosophy is to
get a job as an academic philosopher.  I know that at the meetings sessions
on "non-academic employment" are held, but from what I have seen these are
not done by people with the sort of experience that would be really helpful.
Further, this is a post hoc approach -- now that you *have* your degree and
can't get the job you want, here are some desperate alternatives.  Since I
agree with Peter concerning the value of such training in a *wide* variety of
fields, this approach seems to do a disservice.  Sure, it's hard to get certain
jobs if you walk into an interview waving your philosophy Ph.D.  In fact, my
wife ultimately ended up *concealing* her Ph.D. in order to get her first job
in technical writing.  Bell Labs' personnel department was so puzzled by my
background and experience that I never did get an interview with them, though
they ended up paying much more for me as a consultant through a consulting
firm that *would* take a chance on me.

I really think that the APA should do a better job in career counseling and
strategy and tactics of job finding and acquisition.  However, since this is
primarily an organization of academics and for academics, I can see the
difficulties.

|>   For every philosophy Ph.D. who is
|> > successful at doing this (like our very own Dr. Ruth), there are dozens who
|> > must resign themselves to lesser lives, toiling among the masses (such as
|> > your humble correspondent). 

Here is where Peter (and to some degree my wife) and I differ.  I do not regard
this as a "lesser life".  After a number of years in the university I made the
change with all due consideration and as a matter of choice.  If a major university
were to *beg* me to take a position on the faculty, I would decline.  (Well,
I suppose I can imagine circumstances under which I would take such a position,
but I can't imagine any university meeting my conditions.)  Of course, having
less than year ago left a position of management, I feel the same way about
management.  (Now *there* is a lesser life!)

|> Well, Peter, let me assure you that those of you living such "lesser lives,
|> toiling among the masses" probably have a helluva easier time paying off your
|> student loans.  :-)

You bet.  There was a time when we had two working Ph.D.'s in the house and
we had to get cash advances on the VISA card at the end of the month to feed
the kids.  I think things have improved a *bit*.

|> Just for comparison on that point, the esteemed institution at which I earn my
|> rent payments pays me (mid-range assistant prof) $8000/year less than I would
|> earn if I were an elementary school teacher in this state.  Or rather, that's
|> how much it WOULD be paying me if I weren't on only 3/4 salary this year (a
|> move VERY strongly recommended by my dept chair in order to "buy myself some
|> writing time" in order to bolster my publications so that I don't "perish" when
|> my publish-or-perish day o' reckoning arrives).  %^O

Here is a recommendation for some (not necessarily for Ruth).  If what you like
is the *teaching*, there are alternatives to colleges and universities.  Public
schools aren't such a great way to go (for the most part, though there are exceptions).
But private high schools usually appreciate Ph.D.'s.  My younger son's history
teacher, for example, has a Ph.D. in philosophy from DePaul and has been teaching
history and related courses in private schools for about ten years.  He certainly
is among the very best of the teachers at an excellent school.  Last year my
elder son had quite a good course in "Radical and Revolutionary Thought" taught
by another member of the history department (not a philospher, but a good critical
thinker).  So there *are* opportunities to teach genuine philosophy outside the
university.  If teaching is what you like, and if you can look at this as a
positive career move rather than as settling for second best, it is a good way
to go.  (You may have to coach track or field hockey or something, but at least
the school my kids go to doesn't have cheerleaders -- *everybody* plays.)






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