🚀 go-pugleaf

On 2/04/2012 6:05 AM, Uirgil wrote:
> On 1/04/2012 5:34 PM, fasgnadh wrote:
>> On 1/04/2012 5:03 PM, John Baker wrote:
>>> On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 02:39:13 -0400, "BJACOBY@teranews.com"
>>> <benj@iwaynet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/31/2012 7:46 PM, Sam Wormley wrote:
>>>>> On 3/31/12 5:46 PM, fasgnadh wrote:
>>>>>> On 23/02/2012 4:23 PM, microm2011@hotmail.com wrote:
>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>> It is common sense that science ought not be fighting innocent
>>>>>>> people's beliefs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Science does not fight religion, atheism does, and atheism
>>>>>> is not science, it's an ideology with one basic idea which in
>>>>>> the 20th century killed over 80,000,000 people in the atheist
>>>>>> regimes of Lenin, Stalin Mao and Pol Pot.. far more than any
>>>>>> religion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But both sides have went to far...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly, the extremes of religious theocracies (fortunately
>>>>>> no longer the norm, as majority religious societies around the world
>>>>>> have evolved free, open, tolerant, progressive, rights-based secular
>>>>>> democracies (something no atheist state ever managed to do).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The extremes need to lose on both sides.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly, Religious civilisations have progressively muted their
>>>>>> extremes (the modern secular democracies created by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS
>>>>>> societies are far superior to any religious society of the ancient or
>>>>>> medieval times) and the Atheist regimes have reduced their extremes by
>>>>>> collapsing catastrophically, leaving only a tiny remnant of weak,
>>>>>> ineffectual, irrational atheist drones, who are allowed to flog the
>>>>>> dead horse of Fundamentalism as a minor public service to the rest
>>>>>> of us
>>>>>> (we let them delude themselves that they are slaying dragons, when
>>>>>> fundamentalism is already defeated by the secularism the moderate
>>>>>> religious majority installed to ENSURE freedom of thought and belief,
>>>>>> including non-belief. ;-).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [See Bukakke for an example of pathological Tilting at Windmills,
>>>>>> a la Don Quixote! B^]
>>>
>>>>> Atheist mean one without a theology! Theists and non theists.
>>>>> One is no more or less moral than the other.
>>>>
>>>> Wormley, you couldn't get a thought straight in your dumb head if your
>>>> life depended on it...and in this case it probably does more than you
>>>> know!
>>>>
>>>> Sure, Sam, you love Uncle Joe and all he stood for, but it's high time
>>>> you realized what is going on here.
>>>>
>>>> Generally speaking theists HAVE a theology, and Atheists have a theology
>>>> too! As usual, Wormley, your head is totally up your ass.
>>>> "Athesim" comes from a the greek root Theos meaning "a GOD" hence it
>>>> means one without a GOD, not one without a "theology". Is reading a
>>>> dictionary too much for you Dr. Wormley?
>>>>
>>>> OK. Let's get down to it. The tenets of most religions and atheism are
>>>> quite polar opposites. I won't discuss various religions in detail, but
>>>> they all pretty much hold similar views about the following:
>>>>
>>>> Atheist believe the following:
>>>>
>>>> 1. There is no "God" which is to say higher being or consciousness or
>>>> intelligence behind the universe.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Hence, all things happen simply by random "chance" and this makes
>>>> Evolution as the creator of mankind a "fact".
>>>>
>>>> 3. All life resides in the chemicals and physics of the body and brain.
>>>> When the body dies, all life and consciousness ceases. Science is said
>>>> to have proved this.
>>>>
>>>> 4. For these reasons there is no persistence of consciousness nor of any
>>>> after-effects of any act committed while alive. Hence no "afterlife", no
>>>> Heaven, no Hell and no "punishments" or "rewards"
>>>>
>>>> 5. This means that there are NO laws of morality. Murder, theft, lies,
>>>> fraud, rape, perversion, or any other act which religion views as crimes
>>>> or "sin" are no different from any other acts and are simply expressions
>>>> of natural selection for man. History shows this is true.
>>>>
>>>> 6. Hence, it's all about survival of the fittest. If you see something
>>>> you want and have the strength or the intelligence to steal it, you take
>>>> it. If someone gets in your way, you kill them. If you are in business
>>>> to make money, if you lie and cheat your dumber customers, it's just YOU
>>>> creating a better species for all of us.
>>>>
>>>> 7. And when you die like the lion on the plane, you leave it all behind
>>>> and pass into nothingness as a new generation takes up evolution of the
>>>> species.
>>>>
>>>> 8. That is pretty much it, and establishment science and scientists have
>>>> pretty much proved and verified all these tenets to their own
>>>> satisfaction. This is why it is so important that religious concepts be
>>>> kept out of science.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But to say that atheism and theism are equally moral is certainly to
>>>> misrepresent the fundamental truths of atheism. I'd expect nothing less
>>>> from Wormley.
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you function without 'round the clock supervision?
>>
>> Hey, if you want advice on how to cope with your condition try
>> alt.gone.postal, this is a discussion group not a free diagnostic unit.
>>
>>
>>
>> # From: John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net>
>> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism
>> # Subject: Another One Bites The Dust
>> # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:07:33 -0500
>> # Message-ID: <hf1aj495t47br8nnh9hi5gjg3vh963gleo@4ax.com>
>> #
>> # Just wanted to say farewell to everyone.
>> # I've been giving it quite a
>> # lot of thought lately, and I've
>> # decided it's time for me to move on.
>> #
>> # I've finally reached the end of my rope.
>> #
>> # I've simply had all I can stand
>> @
>> # I just can't handle it anymore.
>> #
>> # I don't see myself continuing
>>
>> # I'm going to end up going postal.
>>
>>
>> Please find enclosed
>>
>> 1 Envelope
>> 1 Stamp
>> 1 blank sheet A4 paper
>> 1 Pencil to write your final note.
>> 1 rope
>>
>> Have a nice day. 8-)
>>
>>
>>
>> # From: Steve Knight <sknight51@cox.net>
>> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism
>> # Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
>> # Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1e4jbmlsqebu9j9b0a@4ax.com>
>> # Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
>> #
>> # We're here to talk about our own personal issues as atheists
>>
>>
>> Jung was right:
>>
>>
>> "Among all my patients in the second half of life, that is, over
>> thirty-five, there has not been one whose problem in the last
>> resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life.
>> It is safe to say that every one of them fell ill because
>> he had lost that which the living religions of every age
>> have given their followers, and none of them has really
>> been healed who did not regain his religious outlook."
>>
>> -Carl G. Jung Modern Man in Search of a Soul
>
>
> Religions, like species, are subject to a sort of survival of the
> fittest,

And the great world religions, those that have inspired enduring 
civilisations, have lasted for centuries and evolved into the
free open, prosperous, progressive rights-based secular democatic states 
built IN EVERY CASE, by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies,
whereas EVERY ATHEIST state in history has devolved mankind and
failed catastrophically, after a brief few years of terror, torture and 
mass murder, killing over 80,000,000 people, far more than ANY religion!

Religion has evolved, atheism has naturally selected itself for 
extinction...

 > in the long run most of the worst ones die out,

in the USSR, Maoist China, Pol Pot's Cambodia..all failed totalitarian 
tyrannies, ... only Nth Korea remains, the last, failing Atheist State, 
a basket case where people eat GRASS to survive the famines....

 > but when one takes only the good from them and leaves

then atheism leaves the societies it had infected DEVASTATED,
as can be seen with Pol Pot's Cambodian year Zero, for example:

  # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
#     - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
#       Characteristics and Consequences,
#        David Kowalewski,
#        Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia�s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
#      -   http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg

#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
#        -  http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/CANDEMIELDA/44camboyano.jpg

#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
#     - Daniel Peris,
#     "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
#      Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
#     - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
#       Wolak, Arthur J.    p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.


> Atheism at its best.

Historically, atheism is a FAILED, DISCREDITED, hypothesis.





---------



The foremost atheist Philosopher of our age recently
launched his new book "Religion for Atheists" and
no atheists are interested in talking about it,
including all the ones who eagerly embraced Dawkin's
even more enthusiastic endorsement of atheist Gods he claims
'came into being'(sic)

 From his book Launch:

"A few years ago it struck me that there is a resource
that is a provider of Wisdom, and consolation,
and an ethical framework, and it's rather fascinating and
has dominated the mental landscape of human beings for thousands of years
I'm thinking, of course, of religion.

And the problem is, I'm an atheist."

    Yes, that's certainly a problem for any atheist!   B^D

    or for anyone living in any of the atheist regimes they ran! B^[

"Not just a bit of an atheist, I really am an atheist."

    You make it sound like you expect people not to believe atheists!

    B^D

"So, this doesn't, in a way, make me an ideal cantidate to write
about religion, but at some point it did strike me that religions
cannot be, in the words of Christopher Hitchins, "the source of
the poison of everything", it's implausible, they've been around
for thousands of years, they reflect the collaborative intelligences
and sensitivities of millions of people and the idea that everything
to do with them is false and wicked just didn't start to stand up to
the scrutiny I applied to it, as I thought more about the subject.

So, that's really the fruit of my thinking"


    That religion is really the source of so so many good and useful
    contributions to civilisation that Hitchin's malicious lies just
    don't stand up..  8^o  and as atheism is devoid of anything
    worthwhile itself, it needs to STEAL some of the many great ideas
    religion has to offer:


" my new book,Religion for Atheists is a deliberate attempt
   to look at a number of areas where I believe that religions
   have things to offer for non-believers"

Sure,  Truth, Love, Compassion, Justice, Sincerity, Charity,
        Mercy, Courage, Integrity..
        all the virtues atheism lacks, and doesn't even understand, all
        the spiritual values that atheists reject completely...


# From: Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net>
# Newsgroups: 
alt.atheism,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian,alt.agnosticism
# Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 03:38:16 -0800 (PST)
# Message-ID: 
<bfcf3a9d-9711-449a-b126-3a1c60146182@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
#
# You can keep your spiritual values.
# I'll piss on them and pass on them.
#
# Budikka



" ..and perhaps believers know about these things already,
     but for non-believers I wanted to look at that."

"It strikes me that at the moment the world is really divided into
believers and non-believers and the debate has become at times very
fierce, there are people, some of whom live in North Oxford who
have suggested not only that religion is unbelievable but also
that it's ridiculous, and that people who believe in anything are
simpletons, maniacs  .. people who must be lectured at, to remove
the folly of their intellectual errors."


    We all know the "person from North Oxford" he's criticising for
    being such an arrogant, rabid demagogue with extreme views, is
    Richard Dawkins            B^]

"That's not really my approach, I think such an approach is sterile,
I don't think one makes progress"

    True, Dawkins extreme militancy and all the money spent on Bus
    ad lies to proselytise for new atheist converts never worked!

"It doesn't strike me that this is really a productive way
to go forward."

    Mate, I have been telling the dimwitted Dawkinite Drones that
    for YEARS now!   But they are completely blind to reason!  B^D

" How do you live a good life outside of a religious structure?

    Well that's silly, when the good life you want to emulate
    exists WITHIN that moral framework and claims that the SPIRITUAL
    values are what brings life to the attempts at self-transformation!

    It's like you want the Light from a lightbulb, using only
    the physical MATTER, not invisible, electromagnetic ENERGY!  B^D

    It's been tried in EVERY atheist state and failed!   B^]

    How can these atheist 'thinkers' be so dumb?

"This is THE question facing modern society, and we haven't
necessarily answered it that well."

    You atheists have NEVER answered it, B^D  but the majority
    religious societies that you want to emulate clearly have!   B^]

"I think it's a legitimate question and my book is an
attempt to answer that question."

    Sure, the hilarious part is that you think atheism needs
    to copy religion ...because it HAS the answer already!!!!

            BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!

    Just what Dawkins, Bukakke, Vurgil and all the other
    ex-atheist believers are trying to do!    ;-)

    Except, THEY are copying the BELIEFs in Supernatural Beings,
    i.e. they are FABRICATING GODS to WORSHIP!  (Just
    like every atheist tyranny tried to do with political cultism ;-)

     Whereas De Botton wants to steal the PRAXIS of religion:    B^D

"My starting point is to say that we should learn to STEAL from
religions."

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAA!

    Priceless!   The starting point for Atheist 'philosophy' is
    that having no ideas of their own the unoriginal atheists
    need to pinch the ideas of the, more successful, religious!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA




"you know some people have accused me of advocating a
'pick and mix'approach to religions, and I say you know what?
you're absolutely right, that's completely what I'm doing,
a pick and mix approach.

Some people have said  'religion's are not a buffet, from which
you can go round choosing the best bits', and my answer is yes they are.
And that's precidsely what I'm doing.  So i've taken my plate,
and I've gone round the different faiths, and I've done precisely that."

     -  Alain de Botton, Lanching his new Book, Religion for Atheists
                         The Wheeler Centre, Melbourne  19/3/2012


http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/stories/2012/03/19/3455152.htm

---------

alt.atheism FAQ:

http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/


http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source



  "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
      -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

   "We must combat religion"
       -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

  �Down with religion and long live atheism;
   the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!�
      - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

  "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
      - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)



   http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest

   http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest

   http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest

   http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest


  "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
      - Lenin

   http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest

   http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg

 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg