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Article #5859Re: EXTREMELY SILLY EINSTEINIANS
From: Pentcho Valev
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:22
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:22
35 lines
3383 bytes
3383 bytes
An example of camouflage that is "not so silly": http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/browse_frm/thread/128cc9ce0b836800? Tom Roberts, Jan 16, 2008: John Kennaugh wrote: > Mass is defined either as gravitational mass - measured by the > force between one mass and another or as inertial mass in terms of > momentum - which turns out to be the same as gravitational mass. My > question was not why an electron has charge or why an electron has mass > but why a photon doesn't have mass when it has all the properties which > define mass i.e. it is effected by gravity and it has momentum. Tom Roberts: "Today is not 1700, nor is it 1904. You are using outmoded definitions for "mass". Today the mass of an object is defined as the norm of its 4-momentum. As photons follow null geodesics to incredibly high accuracy, they have zero mass (also to incredibly high accuracy). Attempting to use "affected by gravity" as a definition of "mass" is hopelessly outmoded. Our best theory of gravity, GR, does not require an object to have mass in order to be "affected by gravity" -- gravity is geometry and EVERYTHING is inherently "affected". Attempting to use "has momentum" as a definition of "mass" is also hopelessly outmoded. In both SR and GR, an object can possess momentum while having zero mass. This necessarily implies that such an object follows a null geodesic, but that's OK because that is what we observe. You seem to forget that the definitions of terminology used in physics depends on the physical theories used -- the meanings of words change over time. Of course this happens in everyday life as well, but change has been particularly rapid in science during the past century or so. Your pre- relativity and pre-quantum word meanings are hopeless in today's world." Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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X-Google-Thread: 10f545,e601b8276a2a8f77 X-Google-Thread: 10b271,e601b8276a2a8f77 X-Google-Thread: fa4c1,e601b8276a2a8f77 X-Google-Thread: f55d3,e601b8276a2a8f77 X-Google-Thread: 1139f8,e601b8276a2a8f77 X-Google-Attributes: gid10f545,gid10b271,gidfa4c1,gidf55d3,gid1139f8,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics, fr.sci.physique, fr.sci.philo, fr.sci.maths Subject: Re: EXTREMELY SILLY EINSTEINIANS Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 00:22:53 -0800 (PST) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 35 Message-ID: <752fe9d1-ff26-4202-83fe-40dbc14776a1@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com> References: <d363de78-db9b-4c54-b639-a7d133687450@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 85.91.141.166 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1200471774 3277 127.0.0.1 (16 Jan 2008 08:22:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:22:54 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com; posting-host=85.91.141.166; posting-account=Lz-LbgoAAABPDavKeW-eYeobwLHD_cvQ User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)