Article View: sci.physics.relativity
Article #6277Re: EINSTEINIANS TAKE CONTROL OF SUPERLUMINAL SIGNALS
From: DiamondSkeptic
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:00
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:00
67 lines
5567 bytes
5567 bytes
On 17 Oct, 07:32, Pentcho Valev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Einsteinians know their criminal cult is eternal but still too many > references to superluminal signals make them nervous; in such cases > they stop singing "Divine Einstein" and fill Einstein zombie world > with the scornful "pfffft hahahahahaha": > > http://arstechnica.com/journals/science.ars/2007/10/16/how-a-superlum... > How a superluminal experiment should be conducted > By Chris Lee | Published: October 16, 2007 - 03:30PM CT > "A couple of months ago we reported on an arXiv paper that reported > superluminal pulse propagation [Nimtz' paper]. The paper was such a > steaming pile of science that our report amounted to something along > the lines of "pfffft hahahahahaha." The reason was that the > researchers did not give a detailed explanation of their experimental > setup, did not present any data other than a rather vague "about 2ps," > and didn't try to make a distinction between the group velocity and > the phase velocity. To examine these sorts of experiments, let me give > you a short introduction to the propagation of light. Light has two > speeds associated with it: phase velocity, and group velocity. When > Einstein formulated special relativity, he did it using the > empirically observed evidence that the phase velocity of light was > constant for all observers. The conclusion was that the phase velocity > of light in vacuum was the fastest speed possible. Today, I am pleased > to be able to give an example of superluminal experiments done right. > In work published in Physical Review A, a group of researchers from > NIST and the Wuhan Institute of Physics and Mathematics...." > > So zombies should learn by rote that in 1905 Einstein postulated the > PHASE VELOCITY was constant, not the group velocity. If he had said > the GROUP VELOCITY was constant - then, OK, superluminal signals would > refute relativity - but fortunately Einstein did not say so. Zombies > should also know that only superluminal experiments published in in > Physical Review A matter - superluminal experiments published anywhere > else deserve, by definition, "pfffft hahahahahaha". Finally, zombies > should never ask the following question: Can superluminal signals > refute relativity as implied in textbook problems like the following > one: > > http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic193296.files/chap11.pdf > pp. 41-42: > 11.6. Train in a tunnel ** > "A train and a tunnel both have proper lengths L. The train moves > toward the tunnel at speed v. A bomb is located at the front of the > train. The bomb is designed to explode when the front of the train > passes the far end of the tunnel. A deactivation sensor is located at > the back of the train. When the back of the train passes the near end > of the tunnel, the sensor tells the bomb to disarm itself. Does the > bomb explode?" > p. 57: "Therefore, the far end of the tunnel passes the front of the > train before the near end passes the back, so the bomb explodes. We > can, however, also look at things in the frame of the tunnel (see Fig. > 11.53). Here the tunnel has length L, and the train is length- > contracted down to L/gamma. Therefore, the deactivation device gets > triggered before the front of the train passes the far end of the > tunnel, so you might think that the bomb does not explode. We appear > to have a paradox. The resolution to this paradox is that the > deactivation device cannot instantaneously tell the bomb to deactivate > itself. It takes a finite time for the signal to travel the length of > the train from the sensor to the bomb. And it turns out that this > transmission time makes it impossible for the deactivation signal to > get to the bomb before the bomb gets to the far end of the tunnel, no > matter how fast the train is moving. Let's show this. The signal has > the best chance of winning this "race" if it has speed c....." > > Pentcho Valev The only unthinking undead on this thread is you.
Technical Details
Message-ID:
<1192604456.850596.195790@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>Path:
arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com!not-for-mailReferences:
<1192602764.601631.155790@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>Show Full Headers
Complete Article Headers
X-Google-Thread: 10f545,96268ead44e21018 X-Google-Thread: 10b271,96268ead44e21018 X-Google-Thread: f74ae,96268ead44e21018 X-Google-Thread: fa4c1,96268ead44e21018 X-Google-Thread: 1139f8,96268ead44e21018 X-Google-Attributes: gid10f545,gid10b271,gidf74ae,gidfa4c1,gid1139f8,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: DiamondSkeptic@googlemail.com Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.maths Subject: Re: EINSTEINIANS TAKE CONTROL OF SUPERLUMINAL SIGNALS Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:00:56 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 68 Message-ID: <1192604456.850596.195790@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com> References: <1192602764.601631.155790@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.131.100.133 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1192604457 27113 127.0.0.1 (17 Oct 2007 07:00:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:00:57 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <1192602764.601631.155790@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.7) Gecko/20070914 Firefox/2.0.0.7,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com; posting-host=86.131.100.133; posting-account=ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0