🚀 go-pugleaf

RetroBBS NetNews Server

Inspired by RockSolid Light RIP Retro Guy

Article View: sci.physics.relativity
Article #7404

Re: Rest mass

#7404
From: Tom Roberts
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:10
34 lines
3324 bytes
BURT wrote:
> Rest mass should be  considered the fundamental mass. But binding
> energy confuses this.

No, it doesn't. Binding energy is a completely different concept from 
the rest masses of the constituents of a compound object.


> A proton or neutron outside the nucleus has more mass than inside. A
> bound proton or neutron has less mass.

No. Binding energy is necessarily negative, so the sum of the masses of 
the nucleons that make up a given nucleus is larger than the mass of the 
nucleus. The difference is the binding energy of the nucleus.

Binding energy is far more general a concept than just for nuclei....


> So which mass is to be
> considered fundamental? the mass inside or outside?
> The mass of a bound nucleon or a free one?

The "fundamental" mass is necessarily the mass of whatever it is you are 
talking about. If you are discussing a proton, then the mass of the 
proton is "fundamental" for the proton, etc. This ought to be obvious.

Note: discussing the binding of nuclei is a complex task, because one 
cannot in general simply remove one nucleon from a nucleus -- there are 
usually more complex interactions involved (the daughter nucleus is 
usually in an excited state). The binding of electrons in an atom can be 
discussed more cleanly, as can the binding of most macroscopic systems.


Tom Roberts
Technical Details
Message-ID: <c54ni.22304$RX.640@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net>
Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr11.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!32b1cbcb!not-for-mail
References: <1184313271.795043.94440@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <LvSli.38021$YL5.212@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1184394393.199242.180370@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> <1184396996.855175.254140@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <469b04ba$0$2992$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au> <1184620136.419350.260440@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Show Full Headers
Complete Article Headers
X-Google-Thread: 10f545,26176ef729f272a6
X-Google-Thread: 10b271,f9b17e69bf88ca2d
X-Google-Thread: 104cdc,f9b17e69bf88ca2d
X-Google-Thread: f74ae,f9b17e69bf88ca2d
X-Google-Thread: fa4c1,f9b17e69bf88ca2d
X-Google-Attributes: gid10f545,gid10b271,gid104cdc,gidf74ae,gidfa4c1,public,usenet
X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit
Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr11.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!32b1cbcb!not-for-mail
From: Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Macintosh/20070509)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.astro,fr.sci.physique
Subject: Re: Rest mass
References: <1184313271.795043.94440@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>   <LvSli.38021$YL5.212@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>   <1184394393.199242.180370@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>   <1184396996.855175.254140@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>   <469b04ba$0$2992$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au> <1184620136.419350.260440@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <1184620136.419350.260440@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <c54ni.22304$RX.640@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.225.56.117
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: newssvr11.news.prodigy.net 1184681416 ST000 131.225.56.117 (Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:10:16 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:10:16 EDT
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: Q[R_@SVG_RRMBW\Y\BNB^^YJBHT@QDDMEPWXODMMHXMTWA]EPMTC@AWZWDXZXQ[K\FFSKCVM@F_N_DOBWVWG__LG@VVOIPLIGX\\BU_B@\P\PFX\B[APHTWAHDCKJF^NHD[YJAZMCY_CWG[SX\Y]^KC\HSZRWSWKGAY_PC[BQ[BXAS\F\\@DMTLFZFUE@\VL
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:10:16 GMT