🚀 go-pugleaf

On Aug 2, 1:07�pm, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> rbwinn wrote:
> > On Aug 1, 11:54 pm, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >> rbwinn wrote:
> >>> On Aug 1, 8:25 am, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>> On Jul 31, 6:11 pm, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Jul 31, 5:45 am, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 10:15 pm, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 6:13 pm, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 5:37 pm, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 3:13 am, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 5:24 am, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 8:39 pm, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 7:16 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alwh...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 5:51 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 7:54 pm, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2:53 pm, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 10:00 am, DanielSan <daniel...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 6:34 am, Stan-O <bndsna...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:27:44 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, a couple of atheists have told me that. ?They said he was a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Russian Orthodox and an alcoholic.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He was an alcoholic.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, you're making things up again.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hint: He was not a Christian merely because an atheist claimed he was...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hint #2: ?What school did Stalin go to in 1888?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stalin went to a Russian Orthodox seminary. ?He rejected what he was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taught there and became a mass murderer.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only partially true. Like I told you before, politicians, and in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particular tyrants, will say anything to gain or remain in power.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, Stalin did say he was an atheist. ?He told the truth about that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He never openly admitted this. In fact, his religious beliefs were
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty vague. What he hated was the concept of god as presented by the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ROC. He did, however, find a political use for the church when it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suited his purpose.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is quite a statement. So you are saying that Stalin did not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe in the Communist Manifesto?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tyrants will use or believe anything to maintain their control. He
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably found some parts useful, and ignored anything that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contradicted his personally ideologies...pretty much the same with you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and your bible...- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stalin tried to stamp out religion in the Soviet Union. It is well
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documented.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And what's that got to do with atheism?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stalin was a prominent atheist of his time who is claimed to have been
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a Christian by atheists of today.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't change the subject. What has what Stalin tried to do relevant to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atheism?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what is the matter? Stalin and Pol Pot were atheists. They will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never turn into Christians no matter how many times you try to claim
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't you atheists ever take responsibility for anything?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because what they did is irrelevant to me? Now, back onto the question
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are REFUSING to answer:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What has what Stalin tried to do ("tried to stamp out religion in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Soviet Union") relevant to atheism?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stalin was an atheist. His values and beliefs were much like yours
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are today.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Torquemada was a christian. His values and beliefs were much like
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yours are today. And you're doing your best to make us all see the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point of shooting christians. You really are.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, let's talk about those feelings, Al. Pol Pot was just an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unassuming atheistic school teacher until he became a Communist
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictator.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, really, aren't you talking about communism and totalitarianism?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What does atheism have to do with it?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Under World Communism one of the pre-requisites for being a dictator
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was being an atheist.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because Karl Marx said that religion was the opiate of the people.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And...?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Religious people were not allowed to be Communist dictators.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cite?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, just go ahead and list all of the Communist dictators who were
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, Daniel.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas M ntzer, for starters.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have more, but I think even one example destroys your guess that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> religious people are not allowed to be communist dictators.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> By the way, check out this quote from tienne Cabet: "Communism is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity... it is pure Christianity, before it was corrupted by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholicism."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Never heard of Thomas Muntzer.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Then this is an opportunity for you to do research. Seek and ye shall find.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Etienne Cabet sent a colony to Nauvoo,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Illinois, to take over the houses left by members of the Church of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who were driven from the city by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mobs. The Communist colony failed.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Irrelevant.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, I do not think it was irrelevant.
> >>>>>>>>>> It is irrelevant to whether Christians can be communist and whether
> >>>>>>>>>> Christians can become communist dictators.
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Well, it was not irrelevant at the time, just as it is not irrelevant
> >>>>>>>>> now whether independent voters are allowed to run for office in this
> >>>>>>>>> country.
> >>>>>>>> Um, what?
> >>>>>>> Since the election of 1800 political party politicians have passed
> >>>>>>> laws at state level designed to keep independent voters from running
> >>>>>>> for public office.
> >>>>>> What has that got to do with Christian Communistic Dictators?
> >>>>>> (And independent voters can't run for public office?! WHAT?!)
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>> Political party politicians are passing laws as we speak to prevent
> >>>>> independent voters from running for office. In Arizona, the state
> >>>>> where I live, an independent voter is required to obtain about 20,000
> >>>>> nomination petition signatures to appear on the ballot for the same
> >>>>> office a major party candidate is required to obtain 3,000 signatures
> >>>>> to appear on the ballot.
> >>>>> States like Alabama, Oregon, and Pennsylvania have been passing
> >>>>> similar laws designed to insure that independent voters cannot compete
> >>>>> with party candidates for ballot access.
> >>>> So, you lied when you said that independent voters were denied from
> >>>> running for public office.
> >>> Independent voters are denied from running for public office, and have
> >>> been denied from running for public office since the election of 1800.
> >> So, all I need to do is to show one independent voter that did run for
> >> public office and your claim will be demolished, right?
>
> >> Karen M. Hartley-Nagle (Independent) ran for public office in 2006.
>
> >> Now what do you have to say for yourself?
>
> > Are you sure that Karen M. Hartley-Nagle was an independent voter?
>
> In 2006, she was.
>
> > Most people who run for office as independent candidates are maverick
> > party candidates, like Joseph Lieberman just did in Connecticutt.
>
> But they don't have to be. �All they have to do is to register as an
> independent.
>
> Bernie Sanders (I-VT) is actually IN CONGRESS RIGHT NOW!
>
> > Most independent voters do not have the means to meet the requirements
> > for ballot access that party politicians have imposed.
>
> Most PEOPLE do not have the means to meet the requirements for ballot
> access that the party politicians have imposed.


Well, I am sure that you Europeans are very impressed by that, but we
Americans would like to have our own system of elections in effect.
Democrats and Republicans see the voters as their personal property
the same way Nazi party members saw the people of Germany as their
personal property before World War II.
Robert B. Winn