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Article #13636Re: Does God need to prove He exists?
From: James Burns
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:45
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:45
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3096 bytes
Antares 531 wrote: > On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:16:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher > <a@b.c> wrote: > Fulfillment of prophecies is the most convincing "evidence" > for the reliability of the Bible, but even these are not > documented so convincingly that one can not reject them. > It is a matter of sovereign choice. Sovereign choice? This argument is one of the most blatant examples of apologetic bait-and-switch. You build up an extensive argument that sounds like you're talking about one thing, say, free will, but, upon closer inspection, it turns out that you're using the words "free will" or "choice" in some bizarre special sense that is nothing like the way they are used in normal conversations. The usual argument is that god doesn't want to infringe upon our "sovereign choice" (whether to believe in or worship Him) by permitting us to have the sort of information we would use to make a well-informed choice. [If you want to argue whether there is such information, I'd be pleased to. However, for now, perhaps you can accept that I believe there is no such information and that God (if He existed) would know what I believe and has not corrected the situation.] How does this "choice" sound in a non-religious setting? I did some job-hunting for you, and I found three jobs. Because I care about your free will and your sovereign choice, I'm not going to tell you anything about them. Which job do you want, the first, the second, or the third? Jim Burns
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X-Google-Thread: 10b271,d932fee6d9806ab9 X-Google-Thread: 102f53,dac8026861d35fee X-Google-Thread: f442a,d932fee6d9806ab9 X-Google-Thread: 116469,d932fee6d9806ab9 X-Google-Attributes: gid10b271,gid102f53,gidf442a,gid116469,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!news3.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com!news.cse.ohio-state.edu!nntp.service.ohio-state.edu!not-for-mail From: James Burns <burns.87@osu.edu> Newsgroups: sci.physics,cam.misc,alt.sci.physics,alt.atheism Subject: Re: Does God need to prove He exists? Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:45:06 -0400 Organization: Ohio State University Lines: 36 Message-ID: <48753F72.1020202@osu.edu> References: <sba274h0m6sfce2dq2q7nqsrh2lca5pnva@4ax.com> <memo.20080707140652.4928A@rmeredith.compulink.co.uk> <5392b914-4e96-4a67-a3ab-453aa9bcc890@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <39ff4d87-1b68-45e4-86db-8e93b470cb99@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> <auafk5-u92.ln1@75-104-215-77.cust.wildblue.net> <1215627446.27300.1@proxy01.news.clara.net> <4d2a74pf351she9f40vri1ku32c7s40a9j@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: phy-dhcp-34-37.mps.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu 1215643428 4625 128.146.34.37 (9 Jul 2008 22:43:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@osu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Jul 2008 22:43:48 GMT User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: <4d2a74pf351she9f40vri1ku32c7s40a9j@4ax.com>