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"The Natural Philosopher" <a@b.c> wrote in message 
news:1215166412.23766.2@proxy01.news.clara.net...
> rbwinn wrote:
>> On Jul 3, 6:27 pm, hhyaps...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Jul 3, 7:38 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jul 3, 4:08?am, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:
>>>>> Steve O wrote:
>>>>>> "BuddyThunder" <nos...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:486c4bcc$1@clear.net.nz...
>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>> God has eternal life, something atheists do not believe in and do 
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> want. ?The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teaches that
>>>>>>>> members will inherit all that the Father hath if they are faithful,
>>>>>>>> which means that members of the church will also inherit eternal
>>>>>>>> life. ?So members of the church can become like God, something that
>>>>>>>> was commanded also in the New Testament. ? Be ye therefore perfect,
>>>>>>>> even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect. ?So there is
>>>>>>>> nothing new in any of these doctrines. ?They were taught by Jesus
>>>>>>>> Christ in his lifetime.
>>>>>>> We would probably want it if it could be shown to be anything other
>>>>>>> than wishful thinking.
>>>>>> I wouldn't want it at all.
>>>>>> What the hell are going to do on your
>>>>>> 1000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00�?0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,�0?00,000,000,000,000th
>>>>>> day in eternity that you haven't already done a million times 
>>>>>> already?
>>>>>> Good grief, you'd be bored shitless, if not driven insane by the 
>>>>>> sheer,
>>>>>> mind-numbing boredom.
>>>>> Ah, but its eternity. It's timeless.
>>>>> Actually this stuff all makes perfect sense to me, but not in the
>>>>> context of a supernatural being..unless you want to call the Universe 
>>>>> such.
>>>>> The original philosophers and shamans who tried to describe the world
>>>>> were not stupid: they just lacked the vocabulary.
>>>>> For stupidity, you have to come down past the political religions like
>>>>> Christianity, to the mere followers like our Robbo, who hasn't really
>>>>> got a clue about the philosophy and mysticism that underlies the 
>>>>> belief
>>>>> set and worldview he so desperately clings to.
>>>>> Religious texts are well worthy of study as long as you throw away the
>>>>> interpretations of *churches*.
>>>>> I've skimmed most of the worlds esoteric knowledge base..I eschewed
>>>>> Christianity because it was so blatantly stupid, until last. Then I
>>>>> found that it had much in common with other world religions: There is 
>>>>> in
>>>>> all a basic structure that pertains to something. Its just that
>>>>> Christianity, and Islam, have both overlaid it with a huge amount of
>>>>> utter rubbish that they insist is the pure literal truth.
>>>>> You will get a far more interesting slant on religion from an atheist:
>>>>> who may have actually stuidied the subject dispassionately: with a
>>>>> Christian or Muslim (excluding the Dervish movement) its a package 
>>>>> deal,
>>>>> by and large, Buy it or not. There is no room for understanding: Just 
>>>>> FAITH.
>>>>> But Faith is just a small tool on one step of a ladder of 
>>>>> understanding.
>>>>> Not the be all and end all of it.
>>>>> Its like science, where people want to be told 'whatever is the case'
>>>>> (Wittgenstein). The truth is no one knows. We are also operating in
>>>>> ultimate ignorance, using a set of rules and tools that produce 
>>>>> results,
>>>>> without any real confirmation that those rules and tools have any real
>>>>> correlation with the underlying reality (if indeed there is such) of 
>>>>> the
>>>>> universe.
>>>>> It gets worse. Largely reality is *what you think it is* because so 
>>>>> much
>>>>> of it is interpreted into your worldview and belief system: enough so
>>>>> that an Epiphany CAN totally change someones subjective life: that
>>>>> little trick is traded on by every priest there ever has been..to
>>>>> demonstrate the reality of their particular brand of snake oil.
>>>>> I can levitate certain objects. Sounds impressive, and so it would be 
>>>>> to
>>>>> a stone age man. You would instantly spot the remote control devices 
>>>>> in
>>>>> my hand...;-) HOWEVER I could in principle use that as the basis of a
>>>>> system to impress hunter gatherers that I had direct access to 
>>>>> whatever
>>>>> power they believed existed already, and thereby create a religion and
>>>>> my own position in it.
>>>>> Its been done so many times..
>>>>> Don't throw out babies with bathwater: Religious material has matter 
>>>>> of
>>>>> interest. Just bypass the interpretations of the Faithful, and make up
>>>>> your own mind.
>>>>> Eternity is a state of mind in which the faculty to organise things in
>>>>> an event stream is not operating. You can by one or more of various
>>>>> approaches experience this yourself. To the practitioner this leads to 
>>>>> a
>>>>> possible conclusions that time itself is a anthropocentric issue: it 
>>>>> is
>>>>> not an absolute. Remove life, and you remove time. Ergo after death
>>>>> there is eternity. ?In a sense.
>>>>> Or to say it in another way, the totality of the experience of life 
>>>>> can
>>>>> be transformed via something akin to ?Fourier transform, in which the
>>>>> time element is transmuted into a position in some other dimension
>>>>> somewhat like 'frequency' or 'colour'. .. a co-ordinate system that
>>>>> encapsulates the totality of a lifetime as a single pattern in which 
>>>>> the
>>>>> time element is not present in terms of linear progression of events.
>>>>> We don't normally operate in that mode: but many people will assure 
>>>>> you
>>>>> that we CAN. "my whole life passed before my eyes in an instant" says
>>>>> the drowning man..its from experiences such as this that the concepts 
>>>>> of
>>>>> the old shamans were born, transmuted and corrupted by years of
>>>>> translation and repetition into the utter garbage you find in the 
>>>>> Bible.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> I think that Jesus Christ would be the best one to explain your idea
>>>> to.
>>>> Robert B. Winn
>>> Whenever you get stuck in the mud, you want Jesus to come.
>>> But your Jesus is your god, surely you are the one to drag him here to
>>> listen....
>>> Can you?- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> No, we Christians will just wait until he returns the second time.
>> That was what we were told to do.
>
> S'all right Ronbbo, I had him on the spiritual hotline, and he is gonna 
> wait till all the churches are dust and ashes, and come and save the meek 
> instead.
>
No, no. You misheard....It was 'the GREEKS shall inherit the Earth' :-)
Blessed are the cheesemakers.

Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279