🚀 go-pugleaf

On 24 Aug, 20:05, Pentcho Valev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 24 Aug, 14:37, "qbit" <q...@quantumworldz.com> wrote in
> sci.physics.relativity:
>
> > FACT #1:
> >   A photon emitted at the Earth surface (ignoring air-resistance)
> >   and going up vertically into the space is SLOWER than a photon
> >   going straightforward in vacuum space; ie. slower than c.
> >   Reason: attraction by the Earth gravity.
>
> > FACT #2:
> >   A photon emitted in vacuum space and falling down vertically
> >   to the surface of the Earth (ignoring air-resistance) is FASTER
> >   than a photon going straightforward in vacuum space; ie. faster than c.
> >   Reason: attraction by the Earth gravity.
>
> > Ergo, FACT #3:
> >   In gravitational fields the real speed of light differs from c.
> >   It can be even faster than c! The direction is important, see above.
> >   (Remember: c is just a manmade definition of a constant!).
>
> > Ergo, FACT #4:
> >   Due to the equivalence principle (accelleration/deceleration is like
> >   gravity and vice versa), the speed of light in accellerated/decelerated
> >   frames differs from c. It can be even faster than c! It depends on
> >   accelleration/deceleration and of course on the direction of the emitted light.
> >   (Remember: c is just a manmade definition of a constant!).
>
> > Ergo, FACT #5:
> >   What's valid for photons is of course also valid for anything else!
> >   (except that each particle type and macroscopic objects can have
> >   their own characteristic MaxSpeed, even beyond c).
>
> > Ergo, FACT #6:
> >   Everybody who says different is a charlatan.
> >   These facts speak for itself. We ordinary people call this kind of reasoning
> >   LOGIC, something that seems like from outer space to most Relativists!  :-)
>
> Half of the hypnotists in Einstein criminal cult would agree with you
> and may even suggest that the gravitational redshift is a consequence
> of the variability of the speed of light:
>
> Tom Roberts wrote in sci.physics.relativity:
>
> > Pentcho Valev wrote:
> > > CAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT EXCEED 300000 km/s IN A GRAVITATIONAL FIELD?
> > Sure, depending on the physical conditions of the measurement. It can
> > also be less than "300000 km/s" (by which I assume you really mean the
> > standard value for c). And this can happen even for an accelerated
> > observer in a region without any significant gravitation (e.g. in
> > Minkowski spacetime).
> > Tom Roberts tjrobe...@lucent.com
>
> http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae13.cfm"So, it is
> absolutely true that the speed of light is _not_ constant in a
> gravitational field [which, by the equivalence principle, applies as
> well to accelerating (non-inertial) frames of reference].......Indeed,
> this is exactly how Einstein did the calculation in: 'On the Influence
> of Gravitation on the Propagation of Light,' Annalen der Physik, 35,
> 1911. which predated the full formal development of general relativity
> by about four years. This paper is widely available in English. You
> can find a copy beginning on page 99 of the Dover book 'The Principle
> of Relativity.' You will find in section 3 of that paper, Einstein's
> derivation of the (variable) speed of light in a gravitational
> potential, eqn (3). The result is, c' = c0 ( 1 + V / c^2 ) where V is
> the gravitational potential relative to the point where the speed of
> light c0 is measured."
>
> http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-gcont.asp"The first confirmation of a
> long range variation in the speed of light travelling in space came in
> 1964. Irwin Shapiro, it seems, was the first to make use of a
> previously forgotten facet of general relativity theory -- that the
> speed of light is reduced when it passes through a gravitational
> field....Faced with this evidence, Einstein stated:"In the second
> place our result shows that, according to the general theory of
> relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in
> vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the
> special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently
> referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature of rays of
> light can only take place when the velocity of propagation of light
> varies with position."......Today we find that since the Special
> Theory of Relativity unfortunately became part of the so called
> mainstream science, it is considered a sacrilege to even suggest that
> the speed of light be anything other than a constant. This is somewhat
> surprising since even Einstein himself suggested in a paper "On the
> Influence of Gravitation on the Propagation of Light," Annalen der
> Physik, 35, 1911, that the speed of light might vary with the
> gravitational potential. Indeed, the variation of the speed of light
> in a vacuum or space is explicitly shown in Einstein's calculation for
> the angle at which light should bend upon the influence of gravity.
> One can find his calculation in his paper. The result is c'=c(1+V/c^2)
> where V is the gravitational potential relative to the point where the
> measurement is taken. 1+V/c^2 is also known as the GRAVITATIONAL
> REDSHIFT FACTOR."
>
> The other half of the hypnotists in Einstein criminal cult are more
> conservative - according to them, in both the presence and absence of
> a gravitational field the speed of light is constant and that's it.
> They may tell you that the gravitational redshift is a consequence of
> time dilation:
>
> http://www.astronomynotes.com/relativity/s4.htm"Prediction: light
> escaping from a large mass should lose energy---the wavelength must
> increase since the speed of light is constant. Stronger surface
> gravity produces a greater increase in the wavelength. This is a
> consequence of time dilation. Suppose person A on the massive object
> decides to send light of a specific frequency f to person B all of the
> time. So every second, f wave crests leave person A. The same wave
> crests are received by person B in an interval of time interval of
> (1+z) seconds. He receives the waves at a frequency of f/(1+z).
> Remember that the speed of light c = (the frequency f)   (the
> wavelength L). If the frequency is reduced by (1+z) times, the
> wavelength must INcrease by (1+z) times: L_atB = (1+z)   L_atA. In the
> doppler effect, this lengthening of the wavelength is called a
> redshift. For gravity, the effect is called a GRAVITATIONAL REDSHIFT."

Another hypnotist claiming the speed of light is constant in a
gravitational field:

http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/qa_sp_gr.html
"Is light affected by gravity? If so, how can the speed of light be
constant? Wouldn't the light coming off of the Sun be slower than the
light we make here? If not, why doesn't light escape a black hole?
Yes, light is affected by gravity, but not in its speed. General
Relativity (our best guess as to how the Universe works) gives two
effects of gravity on light. It can bend light (which includes effects
such as gravitational lensing), and it can change the energy of light.
But it changes the energy by shifting the frequency of the light
(gravitational redshift) not by changing light speed. Gravity bends
light by warping space so that what the light beam sees as "straight"
is not straight to an outside observer. The speed of light is still
constant." Dr. Eric Christian

You may note that hypnotists claiming the speed of light in a
gravitational field is constant are sillier than those claiming it is
variable.

Pentcho Valev