🚀 go-pugleaf

Max Keon wrote:
> "Tom Roberts" <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:9NAwj.2740$fX7.2714@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> Max Keon wrote:
>>> You clearly stated that the em-radiation going up is shifted to
>>> lower frequency. But it's only the clock rate stationed with the
>>> observer at the top that is blueshifted. There is no "photon
>>> frequency" change at all.
> 
>> Quantities like frequency, clock rate, and energy are all COORDINATE
>> DEPENDENT. Whether or not they change in the Pound-Rebka experiment
>> depends on which coordinates you choose to use. The spatial coordinates
>> don't matter, here. If you choose a time coordinate determined by
>> standard clocks at every location of interest, you will observe that the
>> frequency and energy of the radiation changes;
> 
> How does that change anything? You declare that time is constant,
> which automatically distorts the spatial coordinates to comply
> with that requirement.

No, this has no effect whatsoever on the spatial coordinates. It is 
purely a choice of time coordinate, and how one does that is arbitrary. 
To ascribe the effect to changes in cock rate with altitude, you must 
select a specific time coordinate. But that choice is YOURS, and there's 
no physical content in your CHOICE, and other people can legitimately 
differ, choose a different time coordinate, and ascribe the measured 
effect to change in photon frequency rather than changes in clock rates.


>>    if you use a single
>> master clock with slave clocks at each location that are slaved to the
>> master via EM pulses (as in Schwarzschild coordinates), then you will
>> observe that the clock rates change but the radiation frequency does
>> not. The former is what Pound and Rebka implicitly used, as their
>> Moessbauer resonators are standard clocks.
> 
> No, the former is not what Pound and Rebka implicitly used at
> all.

Sure it is! They are using the Fe atoms as clocks -- which are 
equivalent to standard clocks; they are not using slave clocks paced by 
a distant master clock.


> In the real world, time and space are inseparable. 

Hmmm. That is a model-dependent statement. In GR it is a 
COORDINATE-dependent statement. The coordinates you choose are not 
special in any way, and your CHOICE does not dictate physical properties 
of space, time, clocks, or experimental results.


> A spatial
> coordinate system produces clock rates that vary with altitude
> and that gives the illusion of frequency redshift with altitude.

Such a coordinate choice is valid, but cannot preclude someone else from 
choosing a different time coordinate -- one that produces frequency 
shifts. You're wrong in that your coordinates produce no "illusion of 
frequency redshift with altitude", just like these other coordinates 
produce no "illusion of changing clock rates with altitude".


> By declaring that time is constant, spatial dimension changes
> proportionally to the clock rate deficit. But nothing has
> changed.

As I said above, you are confused, and think the coordinates you happen 
to have chosen are somehow special. They aren't.


Tom Roberts