🚀 go-pugleaf

"John Anderson" <arar@iname.com> wrote in message 
news:<ab92u7$bbn$06$1@news.t-online.com>...
> S D Rodrian <sdr@sdrodrian.com> wrote in message
> news:bf7b874e.0205062150.616d93de@posting.google.com...
> 
>>>> But I do know (for a fact) that the Holocaust WAS
>>>> an European and not an American phenomenon. Make of that
>>>> what you will.
>>>
>>> As I was still unborn when the Holocaust occurred,
>>> I can make very little of
>>> that.
>>
>> Incredible how every firstgrader on the planet
>> shares the identical excuse for their Fs in history!
>> (Upon reaching the second grade they usually
>> switch to: "Who killed Lincoln?" ... "I have an alibi."
>> Say, exactly how young are you? Oh, well... since
>> you may be too young to have a library card, here
>> are just a couple of URLs which might bring a tiny
>> sparkle of enlightenment into your dark little mind:
> 
> I have reread my sentence above several times, 
> but I fail to see how it can
> be misunderstood so totally. 

Wow! I am impressed, I must say: I have never
before run across (or over) anyone so arrogant
as to believe that if he does not understand 
something it cannot be understood--albeit I have 
often enough joked about the possibility of such 
a creature as you existing somewhere on this earth.

> I was born six years after the war in a country
> that had not been involved in any anti-Semitic 
> acts whatsoever. 

You are from the Bahamas!

> And you are
> trying to link me to some kind of universal 
> Holocaust guilt. 

Your post is your confession.

> Well, I'm not
> buying that, period. 

You'll only have to pay a much higher price
later, you know.

> If this is beyond your comprehension, I suggest that we
> terminate our exchange of posts immediately.

I will permit myself the last word:
You need not reply further.

> Your eight lines beneath my statement hardly
> merit commenting. My age was
> already revealed, and my 'F in history' consists of 
> a university degree in
> 20th century history.

Ah, then you're one of those fellows who now
writes his own history--damn the whole world!
There is what the Turkish historians say, and then
 there is what the Armenian historians say--Who's
 to say what gains/benefits move any one or more
 historians to make up their own whatever history!

>> Millions of Polish Jews who are not here today
>> might disagree with you (most of them turned over
>> to the SS by Poles).
> 
> 'Most of them'? Most of the millions of Polish Jews 
> turned over to the SS by
> Poles? What utter nonsense.

Okay, maybe it was only 49% of them:
I have an alibi. I go by the account of those
who were actually there (even Poles, many
of them remorseful... too many of them quite
unrepentant). If you hear Russians tell it
there never was a single pogrom in all the Russias!
 
>> This is also true in "most, most
>> liberal" France. And in Italy, most of all in Austria, no
>> less than in most of the low countries, and to some
>> extent up in your neck of the northern archipelago,
>> horrifically so in the EUROPEAN parts of the former
>> Soviet Union... where many locals actually joined
>> the SS in hunting down Jews--
> 
> Even Jews betrayed Jews, in case you didn't know. 

Ha! I know the case perfectly well: It happened at
Treblinka... where a Rabbi, a Priest, and a tart (whose
name I can't recall at this point) were also slowly starving
when the Priest turned to the Rabbi and said, "I know
we're both men of God, but you know that sooner or later
we're going to have to eat her." To which the Rabbi
replied: "I thought you fellows weren't allowed to
have sex!" (Of course, this is before it was generally
known what a bunch of perverts priests really are. Ok:
Only 49% of them...)

> And if the persecution
> would have taken place in the U.S., numerous 
> Americans would have gladly
> participated as well, 

Ah! So you're finally conceding that Europeans
--did-- share in the complicity, after all! Good 4 U.

> judging from their eagerness when it comes to lynching
> African Americans - or maybe Blacks don't count in your personal world
> philosophy?

Hey: Some of the greatest mathematicians I know
are black... and just look white from all the chalk
that's fallen on them over the years.
 
> Actually I'm sure that one would have 
> found *at least* the same share of
> vicious Jew-hunters in the U.S. as in 
> France or Italy and considerably more
> than in Scandinavia or the Benelux countries. 

You know your people. So I will
take your word for it here.

> So the sad fact that the
> Holocaust occurred in the heart of Europe 
> does not absolve racists on all
> other continents of their sins.

I know my neighbor still blames you personally
for the knock on the head he received last night
while being mugged---Right before I had the good
fortune to come into a little bit of money myself
(just enough for dinner and a movie, as I recall).
 
>> Frankly, I really don't know
>> which toilet you've managed to have lived your whole
>> life up to now with your head plunged into it, but... do
>> try to pluck it out of there: It's never too late, you know.
> 
> Frankly, I'm surprised at your lapsing 
> into meaningless vulgarity. I must
> have misjudged you.

Sir, you have! Read my paragraph again:
It is extremely meaningful vulgarity, mine.
 
>>> At least we Scandinavians repudiate all guilt.
>  
>> You are in good company, trust me: Most former
>> SS and Nazi-sympathizing Europeans found, to their
>> dying day, that there really was nothing to be ashamed
>> about...
> 
> So you are putting the Scandinavians 
> in the same category with the Nazis?

I own a very cheap database program
and it only has one category field. Sorry.
But, cheer up: I had to put elves in the same
category too.

> Occupied Denmark, where the population 
> on the King's initiative started
> carrying a yellow Star of David as a protest? 

I recently read an article which exposed Denmark's
role in helping the NAZIs hide the treasures they
stole from their victims. What kind of medal did
they pin on themselves for that, I wonder...?

> Neutral Sweden, which saved
> thousands of Jews? Finland, which, 
> although dependent on German aid in her
> fight against the Russians, did not 
> hand over her Jews? Well, thank you very
> much. There is obviously no limit at all
> to what is regarded as
> anti-Semitism by you people.

Who you calling you people?! O, wait a minute:
I forgot I'm not black: Ok, you can call me
you people. (This joke only works in the U.S.)
 
>> Rather, mull this thoroughly: "All that is required for
>> Evil to succeed is that good men do nothing."
> 
> You forgot the rest: "But when good men 
> have done their good deeds, they
> should not expect to be treated any 
> differently than evil men..."

You forgot the remainder: "But if no witnesses
happened to survive to dispute your lies: lie!"
I'm sorry to tell you that enough witnesses did
survive. It's useless to lie.
 
>>> Of course the Holocaust must
>>> *not* be forgotten, but stop blaming 
>>> a whole continent's present  population
>>> for it!
>  
>> It's always a nifty quip, yours. However, the sad truth is that
>> it's usually applied to those of us who raise the occasional
>> protest to... those who criminally claim that the Holocaust
>> was "just some little incident perpetrated by a couple of
>> bad boys--over there" (even as you yourself have now done
>> in this very post) or that it never really happened at all...
> 
> Did I say that? - If you want to make 
> sure that the Holocaust is not
> forgotten (like I do), your strategy is wrong. 

I wonder if you realize your Freudian slip above:
You meant to write either simply, "as I" or "like me"
but you instead wrote, "like I do" ...!!! Wow! Freud
could be soooo smart sometimes it's amazing.

> The only way to secure that
> is to stop implying that children 
> are responsible for their parents'
> wrongdoings. 

I think this is where I came in: No, you dumb ass
(hate having to come down to a level where they'll
finally pay attention): I am not saying the Holocaust
if the legal culpability of those who were not yet born!

What I will never get through your "brain" is that
the attacks you have made on people who will not 
let you stop them from talking about the causes of the 
European Holocaust (in the Europeans themselves)
... those attacks by you ARE a reflection of the true cause
of the Holocaust. 

The warning is against what you and others like you may 
bring about in future time against those who have taken 
the place of the Jews (who are no longer alive throughout 
Europe for you or your descendants to persecute again). 

> Or forget about the parents; we're talking about the
> grandparents now. 

You are dense, aren't you!

> Inflicting a feeling of moral 
> inferiority on (innocent)
> people is an extremely dangerous policy. 
> This is another lesson of history.

The innocent? Can men do evil except they do it
in the name of the good? Was not Hitler forever
defending the "good innocent Germans" from 
"the evil Jews?" Look: The one indisputable lesson
of history is that history can not be changed. You,
I am hardly surprised, do not wish to be reminded
of the Holocaust (because of reasons which were
the cause of it in your ancestors, and which you 
still carry in your breast for God-only-knows what 
future dark deeds as they will issue)... and thus
I am not surprised you will do your worst to stuff 
the mouths of those who will not let you forget it:
I understand your anger--it is my recompense.

Let me assure you, Mr. Anderson, that proposing 
as you have in these posts that the living generation 
has completely purged itself of the social heritage 
and cultural traditions of the dead generations... is 
always a dangerous and foolish enterprise: We are, 
all of us, their heirs--and usually not much more than 
just only that, for, good or ill, we very seldom surpass 
the moral timber of our fathers... or surmount it.

That is all I wish to say to you.

S D Rodrian
poems.sdrodrian.com
physics.sdrodrian.com




> J A'son