🚀 go-pugleaf

It was said>>>>Presto! Bimbo! when the wash is done
one of the socks has completely vanished into the aether


Well, truth be known--it fell in the black hole.

longshotjohn7  h.g





"S D Rodrian" <sdr@sdrodrian.com> wrote in message
news:bf7b874e.0111220423.c0f4550@posting.google.com...
> "Everett Hickey" <lithium@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:<3bfbe225_2@newsa.ev1.net>...
>
> > I think you misunderstand what "deterministic" means.
>
> Oxford Dictionary:
>
> determinism / n. Philos.
>   the doctrine that all events, including human action, are determined
>   by causes regarded as external to the will.
> determinist n.
> deterministic / adj.
>
> Merriam-Webster:
>
> 1 a : a theory or doctrine that acts of the will,
>   occurrences in nature, or social or psychological
>   phenomena are causally determined by preceding events
>   or natural laws
>
> It's always best to let the dictionary settle these sort
> of disputes (they, dictionaries, are "almost" universally used):
>
> > It has nothing to do with a lack of causality.
>
> A lot of dictionaries disagree with you. You could try
> taking it up with them. In your case, I'd recommend
> you hire F. Lee Bailey (now that he'd been disbarred).
>
> > A non-deterministic universe
> > simply means that while your day to day life
> > might seem simple enough, you
> > simply can't predict what happens over time.
>
> Sir, my life seems extraordinarily complex and baffling
> as it is: I place one perfectly matched pair of socks into
> my washer, and... Presto! Bimbo! when the wash is done
> one of the socks has completely vanished into the aether!
> I open a newspaper and read of Taliban Muslims trying
> to work Voodoo on the United States via some sort of
> monstrous, murder-working super-genie they called "Allah."
> I order a pizza with mushrooms and get one with olives.
> Hell, I drink a whole glass topped-over with coffee and
> drop off immediately as if it'd been a Mickey! Figure that!
> Well, okay, maybe the rum in the coffee has some'm to do
> with it.
>
> > Either that or you're practicing up on sophist philosophy.
>
> At my age, Sir, by now I'd better be damn good at it.
>
> SDR
>
> > --
> > "S D Rodrian" <sdr@sdrodrian.com> wrote in message
> > news:bf7b874e.0111201803.84c1e88@posting.google.com...
> > > FDA <armingaud@noos.fr> wrote in message
> >  news:<3BFA94DE.F764559D@noos.fr>...
> > > > SDR a �crit :
> > > >
> > > > > Yes it is! EVERYTHING in a "deterministic universe"
> > > > > has been DETERMINED from its beginning, and its beginnings
> > > > > PRE-determine() its EVERYTHING. Simple as that.
> > > >
> > > > Simple as a definition, in fact, because this is just the definition
of
> > > > what can be called a deterministic universe. However, this does not
> > > > answer the question "do we live in such a universe ?".
> > >
> > > If "you" didn't it wouldn't be possible for "you" to go from
> > > wherever the Hell you're coming from... to your conclusion
> > > however inane! [But, hey: Have fun! No ties can bind to reality
> > > those who are determined to disconnect with reality.]
> > >
> > > In fact, such a non sequitur universe could NEVER go ANYWHERE
> > > for the simple reason that "going" needs travel a deterministic
> > > path "from here to there" (or, no progress, just a jumping
> > > here & there, helter skelter all about, back & forth... with
> > > no possibility of there ever being a record of its course, of
> > > course): Indeterminism = non sequitur
> > >
> > > > Quantic indetermination suggests that no.
> > >
> > > But sanity demands that yes: The assumption of indeterminism
> > > under ANY and ALL guises excludes sanity itself in the absolute:
> > >
> > > To repeat myself (which I love to do)... There "are" indeed many
> > > "experiments" which "suggest" uncaused effects. The problem with
> > > ALL these "experiments" is that the "experimenters" NEVER quite
> > > can know HOW unpredictability was produced! [Do you see the problem:
> > > IF they know HOW it was produced... that, by definition, would
> > > remove any notion that there was any "change" at all involved with
> > > their work!] Therefore the assumption of indeterminism MUST forever
> > > remain a mere assumption, or it itself becomes the proof positive
> > > of determinism!
> > >
> > > Ignorance always makes the indeterminism claimants propose a "little
> > > kingdom" where indeterminism rules... invisible and impossible to test
> > > (and prove, of course). Quantum mechanics is probability theory, NOT
> > > the vindication of indeterminism you believe it to be (the sucesses
> > > of quantum theory's predictions come from sound preparation coupled
> > > with relentless work, or... a reduction of the "chance component" down
> > > to its barest minimum). You need to realize that quantum theory is a
> > > method for producing knowledge (reducing the haystack to the point).
[sic]
> > > Increasing ignorance (increasing the "chance component") NEVER makes
> > > quantum mechanics work better! What more is there to say about this?!
> > >
> > > And so I stand by my old mantra: KNOWLEDGE ALWAYS PROVES DETERMINISM
> > > ... ALWAYS! [This means that "they" will always assume indeterminism
> > > from imperfect knowledge... or, as it's more commonly called in the
> > > vernacular: IGNORANCE.]
> > >
> > > ALWAYS USE YOUR BRAIN. Or, if you know your limitations:
> > > ALWAYS USE THE BRAINS OF SOMEBODY WHO'S GOT SOME.
> > >
> > > > Except of course if we accept
> > > > Everett's theory that all possible futures do occur whenever any
> > > > question is asked about the universe. In such a case, what is
determined
> > > > is the set of all possible outcomes of a given event. What does not
seem
> > > > to be determined in which branch of it "we" (whatever that may mean)
> > > > will be present after the event. You will certainly agree that it
does
> > > > not change much of the problem.
> > >
> > > I highly recommend that you devote your time to reading Dr. Seuss
> > > (The Cat In The Hat: You'll love it. And it won't mess up your mind
> > > any more than it's already been messed up by the reading you've been
> > > doing up to now. Who knows, maybe it'll even allow you to clear away
> > > the cobwebs and come up with a clear, concrete thought one day.)
> > >
> > > Good luck, sincerely,
> > >
> > > S D Rodrian
> > > poems.sdrodrian.com
> > > physics.sdrodrian.com
>