🚀 go-pugleaf

Albert Reingewirtz <albert@nethere.com> wrote in message
news:<albert-618639.06134205122001@corp.supernews.com>...
> In article <bf7b874e.0112041912.334e2ada@posting.google.com>,
>  sdr@sdrodrian.com (S D Rodrian) wrote:
> 
>> vaelynphi@aol.com (Vaelyn Phi) wrote in message 
>> news:<20011203230158.10454.00000624@mb-co.aol.com>...
>>> I think you've mistakenly applied to Islam what is a disease to all large
>>> religions in the world.  I mean, hell, it's not like Muslims are the only
>>> people who around killing non-Muslims.  (Think "Crusades!")
>> 
>> To date the victims of Islam amount to 60 million human souls
>> and growing. Whatever else, all other evil that has ever been
>> attributed to organized groups, ALL OF IT PUT TOGETHER, by Nazis
>> and Genghis Khan -and ALL OF IT- pale in comparison. 'Nough said.
>> 
>> S D Rodrian
>> poems.sdrodrian.com
>> physics.sdrodrian.com
> 
> Where did you get those startling numbers.

From historical records (most startling of all: even from

[such as http://www.hinduunity.com/ayodhya/asuraevidence.html ]

Islamic historians, for some of whom the numbers of the victims 
are something to boast about--As if one were listening to 
Nazi historians tally up the number of murdered Jews... of 
course, the Islamic historians did not look at it from our 
present kind human perspective but from their very unkind 
and inhuman one): This is beginning to change, of course... 
as one can see from the stubborn fight the Turks put up 
trying to deny that their Armenian genocide (add upwards to
as many as a million and a half victims to the tally of 
Islamic genocide), to deny that it ever even took place... 
something they STILL deny to this day even after the entire 
European community of nations issued a "universal" declaration 
that it DID take place. Here's one link on what Jihad is:

http://www.hindutva.org/AnwarShaikh/Islam/IslamicJehad.html

[Let's face it, youse guys ain't gonna rush out and buy a ton o'
books for Christmas, so links be your gifts for tonight. Sinatra]

http://www.hinduunity.com/ayodhya/euroevidence.html

Monier Williams, Modern India and Indians
Younghusband, Kashmir
George Campbell, Ethnology of India
George Grierson, Linguistic Survey of India
Thompson, History of India 
P.N.K. Bamzai, "Kashmiri Pandits" 
P.N.K. Bamzai, History of Kashmir
Justice J. L. Kilam, History of Kashmiri Pandits
Rhys Davids - Buddhism Clancy Commission Report
Tarikh-i-Haider Malik Waqiati-Kashmir
Hasan, Tarikh-i-Kashmir Jonraj, Kings of Kashmir
Srivara, Rajtarangini - Tuhfat-ul-Ahbad
Saxena, Tragedy in Kashmir - Altaf, Paradise Wounded
J.L. Nehru, Discovery of India
Baharistan-i-Shahi quoted Prof. S.K. Koul's Introduction to Jonraj. 
Dr. R.K. Parmu, Muslim Rule in Kashmir
Narendra Sehgal, Dharmantarit Kashmir
Tuh-fat-ul Ahbab Shuka, Kings of Kashmir
P.N. Magazine, Koshur Samachar Vol xxxvii No. 9, December, 1992. 
Bernier, Journey to Kashmir
Khushwant Singh's History of Sikhs 
Dr. R.K. Parimu, Muslim Rule in Kashmir 
(look up your own, for God's sakes)... 

Jihad/Islamic Genocide is taking place even now in Kashmir:
http://www.kashmir-information.com/Atrocities/atrocities10.html

In Kashmir to date 250,000 Pandits have fled their 5000 year old 
homeland; the genocide of entire native tribes there at the hands
of Muslims is an episode of history waiting to be told.

In 1948 the Arabs launched a war of genocide against Israel
(openly expecting to butcher all the Jews there as their
"religious" leaders ordered). Except the Jews weren't as 
cooperative as the Armenians (and to this day, regardless 
what they say to the CNN morons who "interview" them, most
Muslims still expect one day [no bones about it] to kill 
every Jew there). [Today I saw a Palestinian spokesman on
TV claim the (oft-repeated) reason why "they can't control
their suicide bombers" is because of Israeli occupation!!!
This guy must realize that his American audience was so
apathetic about the Middle Ease they wouldn't know that 
more than 90 of the land where the Palestinians live in not 
occupied by Israel (in any case, I've seen Palestinians 
complain of Israeli occupation and in the same breath 
complain of Israeli incursions into non-Israeli occupied 
territories). Americans are so utterly stupid, apparently, 
that they can't even tell sanity from insanity when they're 
hit over the head with da 2 o'em at once!] Think peace is 
possible between Muslims and -anyone-? Visit:

http://freeman.io.com/m_online/May00/

Yes it is possible--The Koran says it is, provided non-Muslims
acknowledge their religions are crap and Islam is the one true
religion. A brief quote:

"Zul Qadar Khan (1320 A.D.) along with 60,000 soldiers of Turks and 
Mongols invaded the peaceful and prosperous land of Kashmir reducing
it by loot, plunder and arson. Resorting to all cruel acts of savagery.
The cruel invader indulged in an orgy of loot, murder and ruination 
for full eight months and finally with the onset of winter he was 
forced to return. But, by way of nemesis, he was caught in a blizzard 
and thus got perished along with 50,000 Kashmirian Hindus, men, women 
and children enslaved by him only to be sold off as slaves in the slave-
market of Turkestan. Zul Qadar Khan massacred thousands and perpetrated 
unimaginable atrocities on the Kashmirian Hindus. He was cruel and 
inhuman. Having looted everything from the land of Kashmir, the Hindus 
died from poverty and starvation. There was so much of blood-letting 
that the rivers, brooks and brooklets went gory with human blood. Piles 
of corpses with ravenous crows prying on them could be seen lying about 
and even wild grass providing sustenance to the blighted people was burnt 
and reduced to ashes. The worst-ever fury of genocide of the Kashmirian 
Hindus launched upon by Sultan Sikander, his army chief, Malik Saif-ud-din 
and Sultan Ali Shah knew no moderation or abatement forcing the Hindus to 
burn, hang, drown themselves and jump over the precipices only to protect 
their religion.55 The genocide of the Kashmirian Hindus was intensified 
with all its fury when a second wave of Sayyids led by Sheikh Jalal-ud-din 
Bukhari entered the frontiers of Kashmir. The Hindus and their cultural 
moorings were ruthlessly destroyed the same wise as locusts destroy and 
devour the lush green paddy fields. The butchering of the Hindus touched 
a new high. The standing artifacts of Hindu culture and civilisation were 
mercilessly destroyed if they had been spared in the first fury. Parihaspora, 
a standing testimony to the glory of the Karkotas, was ravaged and its 
temples, viharas and caityas were plundered and destroyed reducing them to 
an un-recognisable heap of ruins. The combine of state power and Sayyids 
with the general mass of people either hounded out or forcibly converted 
to Islam did not spare even Nanda Risi, Mulla Noor-r-ud-din of Jonraj, the 
patron-saint of Kashmir and was detained and imprisoned for his total 
and vigorous opposition to the genocidal movement against the Hindus of 
Kashmir."

Yesterday in East Bengal in 1971, the Pakistani Army killed 
1 to 3 million people, with Hindus as their most wanted target.

Quote: "There is no official estimate of the total death toll 
of Hindus at the hands of Islam. Ferishtha lists several
occasions when the Bahmani sultans in central India (1347-
1528) killed a hundred thousand Hindus, which they set as a
minimum goal whenever they felt like "punishing" the Hindus;
and they were only a third-rank provincial dynasty. The
biggest slaughters took place during the raids of Mahmud
Ghaznavi (ca. 1000 CE); during the actual conquest of North
India by Mohammed Ghori and his lieutenants (1192 ff.); and
under the Delhi Sultanate (1206-1526). The Moghuls (1526-
1857), even Babar and Aurangzeb, were fairly restrained tyrants 
by comparison. Prof. K.S. Lal once estimated that the Indian 
population declined by 50 million under the Sultanate, but 
that would be hard to substantiate; research into the magnitude 
of the damage Islam did to India is yet to start in right 
earnest. Apart from actual killing, millions of Hindus 
disappeared by way of enslavement. After every conquest by 
a Muslim invader, slave markets in Bagdad and Samarkand were 
flooded with Hindus. Slaves were likely to die of hardship, 
e.g. the mountain range Hindu Koh, "Indian mountain", was 
renamed Hindu Kush, "Hindu-killer", when one cold night in 
the reign of Timur Lenk (1398-99), a hundred thousand Hindu
slaves died there while on transport to Central Asia. Though 
Timur conquered Delhi from another Muslim ruler, he recorded 
in his journal that he made sure his pillaging soldiers spared 
the Muslim quarter, while in the Hindu areas, they took "twenty
slaves each". Surviving Hindu slaves were converted to Islam."

If you like, consider just only historical Afghanistan:

"The conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000, was followed by 
the annihilation of the entire Hindu population there; indeed,
the region is still called Hindu Kush, 'Hindu slaughter' and
the Encyclopedia Britannica informs us about the resistance to 
conversion and frequent revolt against to the Moslem conqueror's 
rule from the 8th thru the 11th Century AD. The name 'Hindu Kush' 
itself tells us about the fate of the original residents of Gandhaar 
and Vaahic Pradesh during the later period of Moslem conquests, 
because HINDU KUSH in Persian MEANS HINDU SLAUGHTER: Unlike the 
Jewish holocaust, the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested
by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number is 
easily likely to be in millions. Few known historical figures can 
be used to justify this estimate. The Encyclopedia Britannica 
informs that in December 1398 AD, Timur Lane ordered the execution 
of at least 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi... and 
after the battle those inhabitants (of Delhi) not killed were 
removed (as slaves), while other reference says that the number 
of captives butchered by Timur Lane's army was about 100,000. 
Later on the Encyclopedia Britannica mentions that the Mughal 
emperor Akbar 'ordered the massacre of about 30,000 (captured) 
Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod.'
Another reference indicates that this massacre of 30,000 Hindu 
peasants at Chitod is recorded by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian 
himself. These two 'one day' massacres are sufficient to provide a 
reference point for estimating the scale of Hindu genocide. The 
Afgan historian Khondamir records that during one of the many 
repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afganistan, 
1,500,000 residents perished. Indeed the Bahmani sultans in 
central India, made it a rule to kill 100.000 Hindus a year. 
In 1399, Teimur killed 100.000 Hindus IN A SINGLE DAY, and many 
more on other occasions. Koenraad Elst quotes Professor K.S. Lal's 
"Growth of Muslim population in India", who writes that according 
to his calculations, the Hindu population decreased by 8O MILLION 
between the year 1000 and 1525. INDEED PROBABLY THE BIGGEST 
HOLOCAUST IN THE WHOLE WORLD HISTORY. (Negat.)

Firuz Shah Tughlak (1351-1388) personally confirms that the 
destruction of Pagan temples was done out of piety and writes: 
"on the day of a Hindu festival, I went there myself, ordered 
the executions of all the leaders AND PRACTITIONERS of his 
abomination; I destroyed their idols temples and built mosques 
in their places". Finally, as Elst points out, "Muslim fanatics 
were merely faithful executors of Quranic injunctions."

This is not limited to India, in any sense: Everywhere in Africa, 
for example, where Muslims have come into contact with non-Muslims
the latter have paid with their lives, in the hundreds of thousands 
(and in the millions historically because the vast majority of 
African slaves were captured and sold by Muslims, and are paying
to this day... because even at this moment Muslim northerners are 
murdering Christian and Animist southerners across the entire 
breadth of Central and North Africa. "During the Muslim invasion 
of Syria in 634, four thousand peasants were massacred. In 
Mesopotamia between 635 and 642, monasteries were ransacked and 
the monks slain. In Elam and Susa civilians were executed. In Egypt, 
in the towns of Behnesa, Fayum, Nikiu and Aboit, the Muslim solders 
murdered whoever they could find, including the elderly, women, 
and children. Tripoli was attacked and pillaged in 643. Carthage 
was destroyed and its people slain" (and you thought the Romans 
had done the job to perfection). 

You may wish to visit the... Islamaniacs!... at:
http://members.aye.net/~abrupt/house/islam.html

Do you wish to argue Bible vs Koran crap (not with me):
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/index.html

http://voi.org/books/uith/

You thought all Iranians supported the Islamic Republic:
http://www.geocities.com/hammihanirani/islam.html

And Islam's tally of victims would have been even greater had
Europeans not had a military tradition. Even so Muslims managed
to reach the gates of Vienna in central Europe and Gaul in
Western Europe (conquering parts of Italy and all of Spain),
with historical accounts of the mindless murder of thousands
of innocent civilians there in some cases simply to build mounds
of corpses which European chroniclers reported surviving even
hundreds years after the original event. "In 1064, a Muslim general 
destroyed Georgia and Armenia and enslaved the few inhabitants
he did not slaughter. In Muslim-conquered territories of Southern 
Europe, one-fifth of all Christian children were taken from their 
parents and impressed into infantry duty for Muslim armies of 
conquest." Want to live in an Islamic society, well, according 
to no less than Carl Sagan, -- in 1993-- the supreme religious 
authority of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdel-Aziz Ibn Baaz, issued 
an edict, or fatwa, declaring that the world is flat!" And now
you know how that moron Walker guy from California who decided 
he wished to study "the peace-loving religion of Islam" ended
up murdering innocent people from Kashmir to Afghanistan (and
how many innocent Americans, I wonder, will he murder in their
homes after he comes back here and is given a slap in the wrist
for taking arms against his country and murdering how many 
innocent civilians out there in how many other countries)...?

            THE ANSWER:

Can Islamic Terrorism be stopped? Oh YES! But not with guns 
(the use of guns in our 21st Century world is why Muslims 
bring nothing but pain and sorrow to the world INSTEAD of 
victory for their causes SICK or sicker): But, now, imagine 
for a moment what would happen if public schools in the U.S.
had taught ANYthings which had inspired Tim McVeigh to do 
what he did... can you just imagine the lawsuits?! Well, 
in ALL the public schools of EVERY Muslim nation precisely 
the sort of hatred for the victims of every act of Islamic 
terrorism that has ever taken place in the world is taught 
with all the moral authority of state-supported institutions:

And ALL of these Muslim nations do business with the civilized
nations of the earth (those very nations whose citizens have
been victimized and are being victimized AS A DIRECT RESULT of
the sort of encouragement of terrorism ALL MUSLIM NATIONS either
allow without question or protest their organs of government 
and public institutions to subsidize or actually encourage and 
sponsor. This fact makes ALL those nations as subject to legal 
action by victims of Islamic terrorism committed by their citizens
... as if the terrorists had received their marching orders from 
the heads of those countries. [Again and again one hears apologists
for Islamic terrorism insist that "ignorance and poverty breeds 
these poor, unfortunate terrorists," and again and again one 
discovers all these terrorists were college-educated, from middle-
class privileged families, and billionaires like the bin Ladens.]

Surely at SOME point the truth must overtake the propaganda~!

Remember that most of the suicide hijackers were Saudi citizens?
Well, ALL of them were indoctrinated in Saudi public schools which
openly and unapologetically taught/teach hatred of their victims.

And, remember that there is no substantive distinction between the
Saudi Royal Family and the Saudi Arabian Government (which means 
that every pronouncement by a member of the Saudi Royal Family is
an official Saudi Government Statement). And, above all, remember
that all these Arab/Muslim nations cannot exist without a gigantic
flow of monies across world frontiers. So they are ALL very sue-able.
And, as de facto members of the Saudi Government... ALL those super
super-rich "princes" retired in Western countries now and in future
are and forever will be liable for damages arising from actions by
Saudi Arabia while it was ruled by the Saudi Royal Family. 

And now imagine the Government of Egypt, say, which is handed 
a check every year by the American Government --that's YOU-- for 
billions of dollars being, instead, sued for damages amounting 
to many more billions than the U.S. sends them. And we are talking 
about cases which will be INFINITELY easier to prove than the 
tobacco cases all those sharp lawyers have just won across the U.S. 
[And lawyers must be ready about now to start cutt'n their teeth 
on a whole new set of cases... Well here they are, baby.]

Hope this lightbulb manages to enlighten those now in the dark.

And this is something which will NOT fall under the nefarious
control of government officials who don't give a damn about 
ordinary people, and only care about "doing the deal" abroad
because even though there will be a rush to pass laws against
U.S. victims of terrorism suing "friendly" foreign governments
the people behind the proposal of all such legislation will be
very quickly/easily exposed for what they really are.

And... What, you're still a superstitious moron who believes all 
these things were preordained--Allah's will? Hey, to each his own: 
Here's a link even for you here too: http://www.hope.at/prophecies

S D Rodrian
poems.sdrodrian.com
physics.sdrodrian.com

Lord, why can't these guys find a library (or, at least Yahoo, for 
Christ's sakes).