🚀 go-pugleaf

"Laurent" <e.duchesne@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message 
news:<JtjK7.118625$WW.7426738@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...

> A deterministic Universe is not the same thing as a pre-determined
> Universe.

ONLY ... if what you're trying to say is that there is no ONE
"there" pre-determining it (or, there was no "god" at its start
sitting down at His desk mapping out some fantasy to His liking).

> Have you heard or read about I. Prigogine? Try his books - The End
> of Certainty: Time, Chaos, and the New Laws of Nature & From Being
> to Becoming, Time and Complexity in the Physical Sciences
> 
> BTW, he received the 1977 Chemistry Novel Prize for proving the
> undeterministic nature and the irreversibility of energy
> dissipating processes in self-organizing systems.
> 
> --
> Laurent

Dear Laurent, every day I see otherwise perfectly reasonable 
persons who permit "mere rhetoric" to twist their reason until 
their every thought and word is utter gibberish (and if this 
is true in the case of words, imagine how much more so it is 
in the case of persons who speak in numbers): Please step back 
and reconsider your statement above: 

You are saying, in effect, that "a railroad line which goes from A 
to B is not the same as a railroad line which, from A leads to B." 

Yes it is! EVERYTHING in a "deterministic universe" 
has been DETERMINED from its beginning, and its beginnings 
PRE-determine() its EVERYTHING. Simple as that.

PLEASE do not allow mere verbiage to confuse you into the
belief that simple, plain, straightforward reality is
something more than simple, plain, straightforward reality!

There are MANY, MANY, MANY quick-talking persons out there
who can come upon you, there where you stand certain you are
a man... and leave you wondering whether you might not be
some sor of piglet AFTER ALL.

Every last one of us has been endowed by sheer animal evolution
with an instinctive knowledge of the difference between "that 
which might possibly be real and "that which can NEVER be real 
under ANY circumstances" ... and yet most of us are talked into 
the idiotic belief that ghosts, gods, and goblins good/bad are 
frolicking all around us in their pajamas!

And yet... do not "so glibly" turn your back on that inheritance  *
given you by any number of billions of years of countless of your 
ancestors' painfully cracking their skulls wide open just merely 
in order to leave you as their biological legacy the instinctive 
knowledge that "stone walls beat flesh & blood."

S D Rodrian
http://sdr.0catch.com/
http://physics.sdrodrian.com

* These sorts of split infinitives are an ancient trick of rhetoric
to make the statement stand out by making it somewhat oddly-sounding.

re:
 
> "SDR" <sdrodrian@sdrodrian.com> wrote in message
> news:58087ec7.0110221826.4f4ea265@posting.google.com...
> > artnpeg@mindsprong.com (Art Kopp) wrote in message
> >  news:<3bd406ff.3539645@news.mindspring.com>...
> > > On 22 Oct 2001 01:22:45 -0700, rodrian@sdrodrian.com (SDR)
> > > wrote:

> > > >> SDR, do you believe that your future and the future of all
> > > >>  things is
> > > >> predetermined?

> > > >Absolutely.

> > > Ever heard of random event generators (REGs)?
> > > Art

> > Ever heard of if you pick which hand it's in it's yours
> > ( IYPWHIIIs )? Art, I will quote myself:

> > > There
> > > IS evidence that different "effects" may follow identical
> > > "causes," or
> > > at least arrangments of matter that would appear to be
> > > identical insofar as we can distinguish.

> > I'm glad you flooded that dazed statement with qualifiers:
> > There "are" indeed many "experiments" which "suggest" uncaused
> > effects. The problem with ALL these "experiments" is that the
> > "experimenters" NEVER quite can know HOW unpredictability was
> > produced! [Do you see the problem: IF they know HOW it was
> > produced... that, by definition, would remove any notion that
> > there was any unpredictability at all involved with their work!

> > So ONLY "experiments" in which it yet remains unknown how
> > unpredictability was produced can EVER produce results which
> > "demonstrate" such unpredictability! Or, really... forget
> > about it, boy: Try finding out what women really want instead.
> > I hear lots of grant money's chasing after that.] And so
> > I stand by my old mantra: KNOWLEDGE ALWAYS PROVES DETERMINISM
> > ... ALWAYS! (This means that "they" will always assume
> > indeterminism from imperfect knowledge, by the way (in case
> > you were sleeping when this paragraph started): A perhaps
> > slightly more telling restatement of the same thing.) I'm
> > an old geezer, and I've seen these "experiments" being
> > "perpetrated" now for a long time... all the way back to when
> > they involved only a hat and a couple of rabbits.

> > "Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo." (The devil's
> > wiser for being as old as he is than for being the devil he is.
> >                                ---Old Spanish saying.)

> > Again: ALWAYS USE YOUR BRAIN. Or, if you know the full extent
> > of your brain: ALWAYS USE THE BRAINS OF SOMEBODY WHO'S GOT SOME.

> > S D Rodrian
> > sdrodrian.com
> > web.sdrodrian.com
> > http://members.aol.com/bookspine