🚀 go-pugleaf

FDA <armingaud@noos.fr> wrote in message news:<3BFA94DE.F764559D@noos.fr>...
> SDR a �crit :
> 
> > Yes it is! EVERYTHING in a "deterministic universe"
> > has been DETERMINED from its beginning, and its beginnings
> > PRE-determine() its EVERYTHING. Simple as that.
> 
> Simple as a definition, in fact, because this is just the definition of
> what can be called a deterministic universe. However, this does not
> answer the question "do we live in such a universe ?".

If "you" didn't it wouldn't be possible for "you" to go from
wherever the Hell you're coming from... to your conclusion
however inane! [But, hey: Have fun! No ties can bind to reality
those who are determined to disconnect with reality.]

In fact, such a non sequitur universe could NEVER go ANYWHERE
for the simple reason that "going" needs travel a deterministic
path "from here to there" (or, no progress, just a jumping
here & there, helter skelter all about, back & forth... with
no possibility of there ever being a record of its course, of
course): Indeterminism = non sequitur
 
> Quantic indetermination suggests that no. 

But sanity demands that yes: The assumption of indeterminism
under ANY and ALL guises excludes sanity itself in the absolute:

To repeat myself (which I love to do)... There "are" indeed many 
"experiments" which "suggest" uncaused effects. The problem with 
ALL these "experiments" is that the "experimenters" NEVER quite 
can know HOW unpredictability was produced! [Do you see the problem: 
IF they know HOW it was produced... that, by definition, would 
remove any notion that there was any "change" at all involved with 
their work!] Therefore the assumption of indeterminism MUST forever 
remain a mere assumption, or it itself becomes the proof positive 
of determinism!

Ignorance always makes the indeterminism claimants propose a "little 
kingdom" where indeterminism rules... invisible and impossible to test
(and prove, of course). Quantum mechanics is probability theory, NOT
the vindication of indeterminism you believe it to be (the sucesses
of quantum theory's predictions come from sound preparation coupled
with relentless work, or... a reduction of the "chance component" down 
to its barest minimum). You need to realize that quantum theory is a
method for producing knowledge (reducing the haystack to the point). [sic]
Increasing ignorance (increasing the "chance component") NEVER makes
quantum mechanics work better! What more is there to say about this?!

And so I stand by my old mantra: KNOWLEDGE ALWAYS PROVES DETERMINISM
... ALWAYS! [This means that "they" will always assume indeterminism 
from imperfect knowledge... or, as it's more commonly called in the
vernacular: IGNORANCE.] 

ALWAYS USE YOUR BRAIN. Or, if you know your limitations:
ALWAYS USE THE BRAINS OF SOMEBODY WHO'S GOT SOME.

> Except of course if we accept
> Everett's theory that all possible futures do occur whenever any
> question is asked about the universe. In such a case, what is determined
> is the set of all possible outcomes of a given event. What does not seem
> to be determined in which branch of it "we" (whatever that may mean)
> will be present after the event. You will certainly agree that it does
> not change much of the problem.

I highly recommend that you devote your time to reading Dr. Seuss
(The Cat In The Hat: You'll love it. And it won't mess up your mind
any more than it's already been messed up by the reading you've been
doing up to now. Who knows, maybe it'll even allow you to clear away
the cobwebs and come up with a clear, concrete thought one day.)

Good luck, sincerely,

S D Rodrian
poems.sdrodrian.com
physics.sdrodrian.com