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18 total messages Started by Large Pox Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:17
Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#145
Author: Large Pox
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:17
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/business/18nocera.html?8dpc

�Did they first bring up the bailout to you, or did you bring it 
up to them?� asked Congressman Edolphus Towns, the chairman of 
the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

�I prefer to use the word �rescue,� � replied Henry Paulson Jr., 
the former secretary of the Treasury.

�

It was Thursday morning, and Mr. Paulson was once again before 
Congress, as he had been so many times last fall, defending his 
actions during the financial crisis. This time the subject was 
the Bank of America�s $50 billion purchase last year of Merrill 
Lynch, which Mr. Towns�s committee had become almost bizarrely 
obsessed with. In the middle of all the important issues 
Congress is currently tackling, it has managed to devote three 
full days of hearings to this seven-month-old deal.

Each hearing has had only one witness: the first to be grilled 
was Bank of America�s chief executive, Ken Lewis. Then came the 
Federal Reserve chairman, Ben Bernanke. Thursday was Mr. 
Paulson�s turn on the hot seat. The questions, from both 
parties, were uniformly hostile.

�Mr. Lewis, isn�t it true that ...�

�Yes or no, Mr. Bernanke ...�

�Isn�t that why you issued that threat, Mr. Paulson?�

The congressmen claimed to be investigating the events of last 
December. You�ll recall that just weeks before the Bank of 
America deal with Merrill Lynch was supposed to be consummated � 
and after shareholders had approved it � Mr. Lewis suddenly got 
cold feet. With Merrill Lynch�s toxic assets rapidly 
deteriorating, Mr. Lewis called Mr. Paulson and Mr. Bernanke to 
tell them he was thinking of pulling out of the deal.

Terrified that this might set off renewed panic in the financial 
markets, Mr. Paulson and Mr. Bernanke persuaded Mr. Lewis to 
stick by the deal. Quietly, over the next few weeks, they agreed 
to lend Bank of America an additional $20 billion from the 
Troubled Asset Relief Program to help shore up the bank�s 
capital. (They also agreed to backstop some $118 billion in 
troubled assets � though that part of the deal was later 
abandoned.) The first time the world learned of the additional 
government assistance was when the bank made its quarterly 
financial disclosure in January 2009 � weeks after the deal had 
closed.

To the congressmen at the hearings, something nefarious must 
have taken place during those negotiations. But what exactly? 
Dennis Kucinich, a Democrat from Ohio, told me that Mr. Lewis�s 
failure to inform shareholders was a �potential violation of 
securities law.� He felt that Mr. Lewis had gamed the banks� 
regulators to get more money.

Mr. Towns, for his part, seemed to think that Mr. Paulson and 
Mr. Bernanke should have fired Mr. Lewis as a condition of more 
bailout money � that the government had been too nice to an 
incompetent management. Republicans, meanwhile, felt that Mr. 
Paulson and Mr. Bernanke had overreached, using intimidation and 
threats to force through a private transaction. And they all 
cited e-mail from the Fed that expressed skepticism at Mr. 
Lewis�s motives, and emphasized the need to keep things quiet 
for as long as possible.

I had watched the first two hearings with a growing sense of 
bewilderment. It always seemed obvious to me that if the Bank of 
America-Merrill deal hadn�t gone through, Merrill Lynch would 
have been in a horrible position, akin to Lehman Brothers or the 
American International Group. The government very likely would 
have had to spend an awful lot more than $20 billion to save it. 
Surely, the end result was worth whatever arm-twisting and 
additional government aid was required.

So why the anger? Why the suggestions of �cover-up� and �lies�? 
On Thursday, as I watched Mr. Paulson being castigated, it 
dawned on me. Seven months later, with the palpable fear of a 
financial collapse largely subsided, it really all boils down to 
how you view what happened last year. Was it, as Mr. Towns 
believes, a bailout of a handful of unworthy but too-big-to-fail 
institutions? Or was it, in the eyes of Mr. Paulson, a rescue of 
a teetering financial system? My vote is for the latter.

�

In retrospect, the events of last December have a kind of 
irrefutable logic. Mr. Lewis, scared by the mounting losses at 
Merrill, tells the government he is thinking of invoking the 
�material adverse event� clause in the contract to get out of 
it. Even though the clause is pretty airtight � among other 
things, it says that deteriorating assets are not enough to 
create a material adverse effect � it is still a useful weapon, 
and a common tactic. No matter what the actual wording, invoking 
it usually prompts litigation or a renegotiation of the terms, 
or both.

Mr. Paulson and Mr. Bernanke understand this, of course. But 
having just finished giving Citigroup another round of TARP aid, 
they fear that even a rumor that the Merrill deal is in trouble 
will set off a rerun of the awful events of last September, when 
the financial system melted down. They persuade Mr. Lewis to 
take one for the team.

�They needed to say to Ken Lewis, �You haven�t had very good 
capital ratios, and we�ve looked the other way,� � said Nancy 
Bush, a prominent bank analyst. ��Now it is payback time. We�ve 
let you do deal after deal after deal. Now it�s time to take one 
on the chin.� �

That appears to be exactly what happened. Instead of 
renegotiating the deal with Merrill Lynch, Mr. Lewis wound up 
renegotiating it with the federal government. Mr. Paulson 
helpfully pointed out that as Bank of America�s regulator, the 
Federal Reserve had the right to remove him and his management 
team from their jobs if it no longer trusted his judgment. I can 
almost picture Mr. Lewis gulping as he listened to �Hammerin� 
Hank� laying down the law.

Seen in this light, virtually all the Congressional objections 
seem almost laughably na�ve. Mr. Lewis gamed the regulators? 
Hardly. Bank of America is paying 8 percent interest on the $20 
billion. Unlike Goldman Sachs or JPMorgan Chase, it lacks the 
financial wherewithal to pay it back. And accepting the extra 
money means it has now taken as much overall TARP money as 
Citigroup, the very symbol of a crippled bank. Plus, of course, 
it has to abide by strict executive compensation rules.
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#142
Author: Robert of St Louis
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 12:01
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Bush was handed a SURPLUS,  Pissed it all down the drain , then having
to borrow money from China, for what?  An invasion of another nation,
that took 5,000 American lives and was a fiasco. Not a damned thing to
show for our money and in debt up to our ass.   Of course we all knew
that when Obama walked into his office but there are more and more
signs that things are slowly picking up.
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#146
Author: Peace and Justice
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:36
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Robert of St Louis wrote:
> Bush was handed a SURPLUS,  Pissed it all down the drain , then having
> to borrow money from China, for what?  An invasion of another nation,
> that took 5,000 American lives and was a fiasco. Not a damned thing to
> show for our money and in debt up to our ass.   Of course we all knew
> that when Obama walked into his office but there are more and more
> signs that things are slowly picking up.
> 
Bush was handed a potential surplus, a paper generated surplus.
You didn't like the war because your mon's tent got bombed and you dad's 
camel was killed.
When Obama came to office the only things picking up are the national 
debt, unemployment rates, and taxes.
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#147
Author: Peace and Justice
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:37
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Robert of St Louis wrote:
> Bush was handed a SURPLUS,  Pissed it all down the drain , then having
> to borrow money from China, for what?  An invasion of another nation,
> that took 5,000 American lives and was a fiasco. Not a damned thing to
> show for our money and in debt up to our ass.   Of course we all knew
> that when Obama walked into his office but there are more and more
> signs that things are slowly picking up.
> 
http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2009/07/13/was-obama-snubbed-by-russians/
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#148
Author: Robert of St Louis
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:12
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Oh and that's why the Republicans did not invite their own settting
president to their own National Convention, nor "their" vice
president.  And that is why even some Republicas endorsed Obama and
that is why you lost Republican senators all over the nation.  Oh now
I get it !  No problem there huh?
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#149
Author: Peace and Justice
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:38
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Robert of St Louis wrote:
> Oh and that's why the Republicans did not invite their own settting
> president to their own National Convention, nor "their" vice
> president.  And that is why even some Republicas endorsed Obama and
> that is why you lost Republican senators all over the nation.  Oh now
> I get it !  No problem there huh?
> 
We lost because the parasites now outnumber the producers. Parasites 
will vote for whomever promises them the most free stuff. That includes 
most of the minorities, and lazy whites.
What are you going to do Robert, when the White people run out of money?
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#150
Author: mr dude
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:07
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On Jul 19, 8:01 am, Robert of St Louis <free.tun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bush was handed a SURPLUS,

How fucking stupid are you?????

Clinton NEVER had a surplus you fucking blind ignorant lemming!!!!

Clinton last fiscal quarter national debt was $5,674,178,209,886.86

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/NPGateway

Throw away your computer. You're too fucking stupid to own one!!
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#152
Author: Billsey
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:32
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mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu wrote:

> On Jul 19, 8:01 am, Robert of St Louis <free.tun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bush was handed a SURPLUS,
> 
> How fucking stupid are you?????
> 
> Clinton NEVER had a surplus you fucking blind ignorant lemming!!!!
> 
> Clinton last fiscal quarter national debt was $5,674,178,209,886.86
> 
> http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/NPGateway
> 
> Throw away your computer. You're too fucking stupid to own one!!

If you are trying to say that 5½ TRILLION dollars of debt came in only three 
months then you should be throwing your computer away.
_______________________________________________________________________________
                      http://www.lulu.com/billsey
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#133
Author: Robert of St Louis
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:21
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Why do you think that whites are the only one with money?  The richest
man in the world is from Mexico.  There is a much larger black middle
class.   You guys hide behind the mask of being conservative, when
your great white heroes are robbing you blind.
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#134
Author: Robert of St Louis
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:47
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======================================
George H.W. Bush added significantly to the debt and had a record
deficit at the time of $293 billion in 1992.

Bill Clinton, with the largest tax increase in history coupled with
our most expansive eight-year economic growth, brought this record
deficit down to zero in four years and then had four years of
surplus.

Enter George W. Bush and his $3 trillion tax cut for the rich and the
cost of his illegal war. He doubled the debt in only eight years to
almost $11 trillion. Were Republicans asleep during this period or
just not interested in debt?

It’s also necessary to make a distinction between good and bad debt.
An affordable house mortgage can be good debt for a family. But a
vacation home mortgage for a financially strapped family is bad debt —
likewise for a nation. Reagan’s CIA had to know that the Soviet Union
was near economic collapse and a large-scale defense buildup was
unnecessary. But scare the public and bad debt becomes easy. The elder
Bush continued the debt increase (although Iraq I was probably good
debt) coupled with the ever-increasing bad debt for a continued
defense buildup. We obviously need defense forces — but do we really
need to spend almost as much as the rest of the world combined?

Clinton, a Democrat, reduced the debt for the first time in about 30
years. Then the junior Bush arrived with a projected $5 trillion
surplus over the next decade which Clinton handed him on a silver
platter. So what does he do? He not only squanders that but also
doubles the debt — all unnecessary — and all bad debt. The Republicans
have drowned us in debt in order to “starve the beast” so the
government can’t help people in troubled times. That is their debt
strategy.

Now that George W. Bush has handed Barack Obama the worst economic
crisis since the Great Depression and a whopping debt that allows no
maneuvering room, what can he do? He is forced to use a record deficit
to rescue our financial system — the centerpiece of the economy. At
least the stimulus money is staying in this country and is being used
to help people during a crisis. True, we have to bring deficits under
control and worry about inflation, but first things first. Obama
clearly recognizes the debt issue. Hopefully he will be able to guide
us through this extreme period.

Will the Republicans help? I doubt it. For six months, they have been
like little dogs yapping at the heels of Democrats trying to fix the
problem for which Republicans are mostly responsible. At least they
can now say the word “debt.” That is some progress.
DAVID McLOUGHLIN
==============================
Oh yeah.they are still looking for the Weapons of Mass Destruction and
"we don't torture" handbook.
============================
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#135
Author: softsofa
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:01
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On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:21:30 -0700 (PDT), Robert of St Louis
<free.tuneup@gmail.com> wrote:

>Why do you think that whites are the only one with money?  The richest
>man in the world is from Mexico.  There is a much larger black middle
>class.   You guys hide behind the mask of being conservative, when
>your great white heroes are robbing you blind.

Time for our great black heroes to get their turn. 
 


                      []softsofa[]
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#136
Author: Phxbrd
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:08
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"softsofa" <softsofa@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:jof9655ftegrk9r399t2rm77r649phaot6@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:21:30 -0700 (PDT), Robert of St Louis
> <free.tuneup@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Why do you think that whites are the only one with money?  The richest
>>man in the world is from Mexico.  There is a much larger black middle
>>class.   You guys hide behind the mask of being conservative, when
>>your great white heroes are robbing you blind.
>
> Time for our great black heroes to get their turn.
>


No, it's time to stop couching anything in terms of race.  That means ending 
Affirmative Action ASAP.  It's time for equality.
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#137
Author: softsofa
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:01
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On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:08:44 -0700, "Phxbrd"
<lesliesethhammond@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"softsofa" <softsofa@comcast.net> wrote in message 
>news:jof9655ftegrk9r399t2rm77r649phaot6@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:21:30 -0700 (PDT), Robert of St Louis
>> <free.tuneup@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Why do you think that whites are the only one with money?  The richest
>>>man in the world is from Mexico.  There is a much larger black middle
>>>class.   You guys hide behind the mask of being conservative, when
>>>your great white heroes are robbing you blind.
>>
>> Time for our great black heroes to get their turn.

>No, it's time to stop couching anything in terms of race.  That means ending 
>Affirmative Action ASAP.  It's time for equality.

Policies that use race as a basis for decisions are racist.  
 


                      []softsofa[]
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#138
Author: mr dude
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:57
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On Jul 20, 12:47 pm, Robert of St Louis <free.tun...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bill Clinton, with the largest tax increase in history coupled with
> our most expansive eight-year economic growth, brought this record
> deficit down to zero in four years and then had four years of
> surplus.


As can clearly be seen, in no year did the national debt go down, nor
did Clinton leave President Bush with a surplus that Bush subsequently
turned into a deficit. Yes, the deficit was almost eliminated in
FY2000 (ending in September 2000 with a deficit of "only" $17.9
billion), but it never reached zero--let alone a positive surplus
number. And Clinton's last budget proposal for FY2001, which ended in
September 2001, generated a $133.29 billion deficit. The growing
deficits started in the year of the last Clinton budget, not in the
first year of the Bush administration.

Keep in mind that President Bush took office in January 2001 and his
first budget took effect October 1, 2001 for the year ending September
30, 2002 (FY2002). So the $133.29 billion deficit in the year ending
September 2001 was Clinton's. Granted, Bush supported a tax refund
where taxpayers received checks in 2001. However, the total amount
refunded to taxpayers was only $38 billion . So even if we assume that
$38 billion of the FY2001 deficit was due to Bush's tax refunds which
were not part of Clinton's last budget, that still means that
Clinton's last budget produced a deficit of 133.29 - 38 = $95.29
billion.



http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16


Clinton clearly did not achieve a surplus and he didn't leave
President Bush with a surplus.

So why do they say he had a surplus?

As is usually the case in claims such as this, it has to do with
Washington doublespeak and political smoke and mirrors.

Understanding what happened requires understanding two concepts of
what makes up the national debt. The national debt is made up of
public debt and intergovernmental holdings. The public debt is debt
held by the public, normally including things such as treasury bills,
savings bonds, and other instruments the public can purchase from the
government. Intergovernmental holdings, on the other hand, is when the
government borrows money from itself--mostly borrowing money from
social security.
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#139
Author: Phxbrd
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:20
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"softsofa" <softsofa@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:v7j9651jjc19g6107nno5r5p86vc1bamu8@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:08:44 -0700, "Phxbrd"
> <lesliesethhammond@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"softsofa" <softsofa@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:jof9655ftegrk9r399t2rm77r649phaot6@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:21:30 -0700 (PDT), Robert of St Louis
>>> <free.tuneup@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Why do you think that whites are the only one with money?  The richest
>>>>man in the world is from Mexico.  There is a much larger black middle
>>>>class.   You guys hide behind the mask of being conservative, when
>>>>your great white heroes are robbing you blind.
>>>
>>> Time for our great black heroes to get their turn.
>
>>No, it's time to stop couching anything in terms of race.  That means 
>>ending
>>Affirmative Action ASAP.  It's time for equality.
>
> Policies that use race as a basis for decisions are racist.
>

Obviously.
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#140
Author: Peace and Justice
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:29
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Robert of St Louis wrote:
> Why do you think that whites are the only one with money?  The richest
> man in the world is from Mexico.  There is a much larger black middle
> class.   You guys hide behind the mask of being conservative, when
> your great white heroes are robbing you blind.
> 
1. If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and 
incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful 
and historically significant gift, would you have approved?

2. If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing 
videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly 
narcissistic and tacky?

3. If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you 
have approved?

4. If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the 
non-existent "Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a 
minor slip?

5. If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with 
people who cannot seem to keep current on their income taxes, would you 
have approved?

6. If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to 
�Cinco de Cuatro� in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the 
fourth of May (Cuatro de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried 
again, would you have winced in embarrassment?

7. If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word /advice/ would you have 
hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and /potato_e_/ as �proof� 
of what a dunce he is?

8. If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a 
single tree on �Earth Day�, would you have concluded he�s a hypocrite?

9. If George W. Bush�s administration had okayed Air Force One flying 
low over millions of people followed by a jet fighter in downtown 
Manhattan causing widespread panic, would you have wondered whether they 
actually �get� what happened on 9-11?

10. If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a 
teleprompter installed to be able to get through a press conference, 
would you have laughed and said this is more proof of how he inept he is 
on his own and is really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?

11. If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims 
throughout the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than in 
New Orleans , would you want it made into a major ongoing political 
issue with claims of racism and incompetence?

12. If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major 
corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, 
would you have approved?

13. If George W. Bush had proposed to double the national debt, which 
had taken more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you 
have approved?

14. If George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within 
10 years, would you have approved?

15. If George W. Bush had reduced your retirement plan�s holdings of GM 
stock by 90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have 
approved?

16. If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take 
Laura Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?

So, tell me again, what is it about President Obama that makes him so 
brilliant and impressive? Can't think of anything? Don't worry. He's 
done all this in 5 months
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#141
Author: Peace and Justice
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:30
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1. If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and 
incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful 
and historically significant gift, would you have approved?

2. If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing 
videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly 
narcissistic and tacky?

3. If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you 
have approved?

4. If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the 
non-existent "Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a 
minor slip?

5. If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with 
people who cannot seem to keep current on their income taxes, would you 
have approved?

6. If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to 
�Cinco de Cuatro� in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the 
fourth of May (Cuatro de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried 
again, would you have winced in embarrassment?

7. If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word /advice/ would you have 
hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and /potato_e_/ as �proof� 
of what a dunce he is?

8. If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a 
single tree on �Earth Day�, would you have concluded he�s a hypocrite?

9. If George W. Bush�s administration had okayed Air Force One flying 
low over millions of people followed by a jet fighter in downtown 
Manhattan causing widespread panic, would you have wondered whether they 
actually �get� what happened on 9-11?

10. If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a 
teleprompter installed to be able to get through a press conference, 
would you have laughed and said this is more proof of how he inept he is 
on his own and is really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?

11. If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims 
throughout the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than in 
New Orleans , would you want it made into a major ongoing political 
issue with claims of racism and incompetence?

12. If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major 
corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, 
would you have approved?

13. If George W. Bush had proposed to double the national debt, which 
had taken more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you 
have approved?

14. If George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within 
10 years, would you have approved?

15. If George W. Bush had reduced your retirement plan�s holdings of GM 
stock by 90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have 
approved?

16. If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take 
Laura Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?

So, tell me again, what is it about President Obama that makes him so 
brilliant and impressive? Can't think of anything? Don't worry. He's 
done all this in 5 months
Re: Looking Back in Anger at the Democrat Caused Financial Crisis
#132
Author: Hope for the Heartless
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 04:36
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In article 
<b0bf4e48-d802-4ce9-a5b6-426af850b9a7@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
 "mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu" <fosterfla@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 19, 8:01�am, Robert of St Louis <free.tun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Bush was handed a SURPLUS,
> 
> How fucking stupid are you?????
> 
> Clinton NEVER had a surplus you fucking blind ignorant lemming!!!!
> 
> Clinton last fiscal quarter national debt was $5,674,178,209,886.86

If you get more in revenue than you spend in a given year, that's 
referred to as a surplus.  Most of that debt was accumulated during 
the Reagan and 1st Bush administrations.  

     In billions of dollars:
Year      Revenue Expenditure
1998      1721.8    1652.6
1999      1827.5    1701.9
2000      2025.2    1788.8

It's true this is not the whole picture.  It's possible for interest on 
the national debt to cause total debt to increase, even when you 
have a surplus.  

Also most figures for "national debt" include money that the Treasury
owes to the Social Security Administration.  It's funny money because
the federal government is both the creditor and the debtor.  But the 
Treasury Department counts it because it represents spending that the 
government has committed to doing in the future -- unless Congress 
decides otherwise.  So it's on the balance sheet as a liability.  

The actual public debt at the end of FY2000 was $3409.8 B.
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