🚀 go-pugleaf

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Richard van Abbe wrote:
>
> On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:52:10 GMT, ab756@torfree.net (Graham Bullers)
> wrote:
>
> =>It is true that at the last board meeting the board voted to give
each
> =>board member $3000 towards a new computer,is this why the minutes of
the
> =>last meeting are not posted?
>
>         No, that is NOT true. And if there IS such a rumor going
around, it is
> absurd in the extreme.

I do agree with Richard here. I think Graham has just succeeded in
getting a response.

>         No Board member has been given or promised ANY money, for ANY
reason,
> by this or previous Boards of Directors.

Agree completely, not any direct payments were ever promised or given to
current board members (It would appear that I am very cautious here, due
to lack of information, but I am almost certain that this also applies
to all previous board members. The trick Graham is that you are putting
current and previous board members on the defensive, i.e. asking them to
provide proof of innocence, an old dirty trick in my opinion. The proof
of guilt is the onus of the accuser. Every body is innocent until proven
otherwise.

>         The draft minutes of the last meeting contained several errors
that
> are being corrected. When they are, the minutes will be posted as
> usual.

I do feel a contradiction here. As usual implies that they will not be
published :-) May be it is time to tell the membership what were the
things that needed correction. It is also time to post the previous
board minutes prior to January 9th as approved by the board, unless they
are being 'corrected' too.

>         This Board has certainly been beset by some daunting
difficulties,
> as everyone who has been following the saga of the Toronto Free-Net
> knows. But I can assure you that despite the normal differences of
> opinion and vision, everyone connected with this Board is selflessly
> committed to saving and improving this institution for its current and
> future members.

Well, if that includes me too, I would certainly agree with caution,
taking decisions and votes as a sign of difference in 'opinion'.

>         Speaking for myself, if I thought for a minute that anyone was
> profiting financially by his/her leadership position in TFN I would
> quit instantly, and air that dirty laundry for all to see.

What if not a board member? Would the same apply?

>         Besides, if this rumor were, in fact, true, TFN would at this
moment
> be bankrupt and out of business. And although it's no secret that we
> are not in good shape, we are not yet bankrupt, either.

Depends on your definition of bankruptcy. If you follow the traditional
definition that only restricts 'bankruptcy' to declaring bankruptcy in
response to overwhelming request of paying bills that could not be
processed in time and the 'debtor' had to resort to courts to get its
money, I would agree completely.

However, if you imply that the current board is not in debt or does have
concrete resources to pail TFN out, then I would challenge you to prove
it. Sometimes, the truth is your way out.

>         So let's try to quell the wild rumors and paranoia, shall we?
Nothing
> can possibly be more effective in bringing about our demise.

The wild rumors was brought about by your summary excution, your lack of
adherance to the by-laws, etc. These are the most effective weapons to
bring about the TFN demise. As for paranoia, you mean like that
practiced by the board itself? Unless of course the board is not
practicing paranoia but .......

The facts will come out Richard, whether you do it yourself as the
Excutive Director, or is brought about by other ways. You are well
advised to study in detail the Allisat affair, where the previous board
tried to keep its dealings with the matter a 'secret'. It may not be a
bad idea that the board meetings should be 'on camera sessions' to
determine what exactly took place and by whom. The ommission of
mentioning the names of board members with, against and abstaining
leaves a lot to be desired. Again may be the practices of the previous
board - particularly in minutes and sessions - be an excellent guide.
--
Nabil M. El-Khodari   HTML Writers Guild mailto:fits@4u.net
Web designer  Software Contractors' Guild Tel.: (416) 762-5135
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/3285/ Fax.: (416) 762-3490
President, FITS (Falcon International Teleco./Translation Services)


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<DT>Richard van Abbe wrote:<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;<BR>
&gt; On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:52:10 GMT, ab756@torfree.net (Graham Bullers)<BR>
&gt; wrote:<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;<BR>
&gt; =&gt;It is true that at the last board meeting the board voted to
give each<BR>
&gt; =&gt;board member $3000 towards a new computer,is this why the minutes
of the<BR>
&gt; =&gt;last meeting are not posted?<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; No, that is NOT true.
And if there IS such a rumor going around, it is<BR>
&gt; absurd in the extreme.</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>I do agree with Richard here. I think Graham has just succeeded in
getting a response.</DT>

<DT><BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; No Board member has
been given or promised ANY money, for ANY reason,<BR>
&gt; by this or previous Boards of Directors.<BR>
<BR></DT>

<DT>Agree completely, not any direct payments were ever promised or given
to current board members (It would appear that I am very cautious here,
due to lack of information, but I am almost certain that this also applies
to all previous board members. The trick Graham is that you are putting
current and previous board members on the defensive, i.e. asking them to
provide proof of innocence, an old dirty trick in my opinion. The proof
of guilt is the onus of the accuser. Every body is innocent until proven
otherwise.</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The draft minutes
of the last meeting contained several errors that<BR>
&gt; are being corrected. When they are, the minutes will be posted as<BR>
&gt; usual.<BR>
<BR></DT>

<DT>I do feel a contradiction here. As usual implies that they will not
be published :-) May be it is time to tell the membership what were the
things that needed correction. It is also time to post the previous board
minutes prior to January 9th as approved by the board, unless they are
being 'corrected' too.</DT>

<DT><BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This Board has certainly
been beset by some daunting difficulties,<BR>
&gt; as everyone who has been following the saga of the Toronto Free-Net<BR>
&gt; knows. But I can assure you that despite the normal differences of<BR>
&gt; opinion and vision, everyone connected with this Board is selflessly<BR>
&gt; committed to saving and improving this institution for its current
and<BR>
&gt; future members.<BR>
<BR></DT>

<DT>Well, if that includes me too, I would certainly agree with caution,
taking decisions and votes as a sign of difference in 'opinion'.&nbsp;</DT>

<DT><BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Speaking for myself,
if I thought for a minute that anyone was<BR>
&gt; profiting financially by his/her leadership position in TFN I would<BR>
&gt; quit instantly, and air that dirty laundry for all to see.<BR>
<BR></DT>

<DT>What if not a board member? Would the same apply?</DT>

<DT><BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Besides, if this rumor
were, in fact, true, TFN would at this moment<BR>
&gt; be bankrupt and out of business. And although it's no secret that
we<BR>
&gt; are not in good shape, we are not yet bankrupt, either.<BR>
<BR></DT>

<DT>Depends on your definition of bankruptcy. If you follow the traditional
definition that only restricts 'bankruptcy' to declaring bankruptcy in
response to overwhelming request of paying bills that could not be processed
in time and the 'debtor' had to resort to courts to get its money, I would
agree completely.</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>However, if you imply that the current board is not in debt or does
have concrete resources to pail TFN&nbsp;out, then I would challenge you
to prove it. Sometimes, the truth is your way out.</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So let's try to
quell the wild rumors and paranoia, shall we? Nothing<BR>
&gt; can possibly be more effective in bringing about our demise.<BR>
<BR></DT>

<DT>The wild rumors was brought about by your summary excution, your lack
of adherance to the by-laws, etc. These are the most effective weapons
to bring about the TFN&nbsp;demise. As for paranoia, you mean like that
practiced by the board itself? Unless of course the board is not practicing
paranoia but .......</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>The facts will come out Richard, whether you do it yourself as the
Excutive Director, or is brought about by other ways. You are well advised
to study in detail the Allisat affair, where the previous board tried to
keep its dealings with the matter a 'secret'. It may not be a bad idea
that the board meetings should be 'on camera sessions' to determine what
exactly took place and by whom. The ommission of mentioning the names of
board members with, against and abstaining leaves a lot to be desired.
Again may be the practices of the previous board - particularly in minutes
and sessions - be an excellent guide.&nbsp;<BR>
--&nbsp;<BR>
Nabil M. El-Khodari&nbsp;&nbsp; HTML Writers Guild mailto:fits@4u.net<BR>
Web designer&nbsp; Software Contractors' Guild Tel.: (416) 762-5135<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/3285/ Fax.: (416) 762-3490<BR>
President, FITS (Falcon International Teleco./Translation Services)<BR>
&nbsp;</DT>

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