🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <djdow-1007952119090001@lucky152.acns.nwu.edu>,
   djdow@nwu.edu wrote:
{In article <3tpmc5$es6@uuneo.neosoft.com>, astroboy@neosoft.com (Mr. Fun) 
wrote:
{
{
{:  I realize that government CAN ban smoking in restaurants.  I just don't
{think 
{:  they should.
{
{Fair enough.
{
{:  Not the same.  A fireworks display is not a restaurant.  If the same thing 
{:  happened in a restaurant, then you could have gone to the management and 
{:  complained.  Then it would be up to them what to do.  If they want to sell 
{:  food to loud drunk people, THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO SO.  If they want 
to 
{:  sell food to people who smoke or fart or wear too much perfume, they
{have that 
{:  right, too.  You of course have the right to eat somewhere else.
{
{My point is that bad behavior drives out civil enjoyment. A restaurant is
{a public place and *good* behavior should be the standard. I agree we
{should insist on it. That's why I support mandatory non-smoking sections
{in all restaurants. Smoking is not civilized behavior when it is indulged
{in in the presence of non-smokers who have not consented. 

Not true.  There are restaurants where bad behavior should be the standard, 
becauuse that is the atmosphere the owners wish to create.  Sometimes people 
like to be bad, and it can be fun to do it in public.

{
{:  Why in restaurants?  I can see it in work places, in govt. buildings, in 
{:  hospitals, in schools, etc.  But restaurants are optional.  No one has to 
go 
{:  there.
{
{That's true in one sense. But we are supposed to be running a society
{here. We have handicapped access laws for that reason, and they apply to
{restaurants. By your reasoning, the handicapped can just eat at home.  

What you mean "we", kemosabe?  I'm not running a society here.  Anyway, I 
think society can survive a few smoke filled restaurants.

{I know people who have asthma (which I think I thpelled right.) Should
{they stay home? 

They shouldn't inhale too much smoke.  Same as diabetics shouldn't eat too 
much sugar, people with high blood pressure shouldn't eat too much salt, 
people with lowered immune systems shouldn't eat raw oysters.

{:  Then lets leave free markets out of this.  I'm advocating that people take 
{:  responsibility for their own lives and just refuse to eat anywhere that 
{:  offends them.  What could be simpler?
{
{Forbidding smoking in enclosed public places. That's *real* simple. Let
{the smoker's step outside, or go to management and ask for a smoking
{section.

Its simple, but it ignores the rights of business owners.  And if smoking is 
forbidden in enclosed public places, asking for a smoking section will do no 
good.  It would be illegal to set one up.

{The onus is on the people exhibiting the behavior, not the people
{objecting to it. This concept is the basis of civility, and the attitude
{that those who *object* should have the burden is, at its core, an
{attitude that undercuts civil life. It is the attitude of a barbarian. (I
{don't mean to flame you here. I mean this literally - that it is barbaric,
{*in the context of civil life*, to insist on imposing one's disruptive
{behavior on other people, as judged by those same other people.)

I've never advocated imposing smoke on people who don't want it.  They are all 
free to eat at smokeless restaurants.  I myself don't eat in smoky 
establishments.  I don't have a problem finding places here in Houston that 
either forbid smoking or have adequate separation between the sections.  We 
have no laws forbidding smoking here.

{My own position is that smokers should be accomodated, where possible, and
{that it is reasonable to make such an effort. I suggested a few posts back
{that we should reserve Tuesdays and Fridays for "smoking days" at
{restaurants, and though I meant it in jest, it just might work! And I *do*
{understand the civilized enjoyment of a cigar & brandy, after a meal,
{though I don't do the cigar part meself.  But if push comes to shove, and
{it is the smokers or the nonsmokers, the nonsmokers win, hands down, IMHO.

My position has little to do with smokers.  It has to do with business owners. 
 I see no advantage in legislation that dictates this aspect of their 
business.

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