🚀 go-pugleaf

In <17342@borg.cs.unc.edu> hardarso@weiss.cs.unc.edu (Kari Hardarson) writes:
>[cable boxes]
>Why do we need those boxes on top of our TV?  They look ugly, they
>consume energy even when turned off (mine is always hotter than skin
>temperature) and they complicate TV watching in general.  Does anyone
>know if they benefit the consumer in any way?

The boxes make it easier to turn on/off pay channels, because they can just
program the box down the wire. They also allow a two-tier service for the
other channels, by providing a tiny subset of service for a lower price while
scrambling all the useful channels. BTW, I'm *glad* I don't have a box.

A friend of mine in the DC area has a box because he has 2 physical cables
running into his apartment. Apparently, a single coax doesn't have the
bandwidth for the 110 or so channels he can get. Is this true, and if so,
how could 100+ channel "cable ready" sets work anywhere?

>I called my friendly cable company the other day and told them that the
>picture on the Pay-per-view channels was bad - interference and such.
>The answer I got was: "you may come to our office and get your cable box
>exchanged".  I was supposed to drive 5 miles and get another box to test
>the phone operators theory that this was probably the box.  What are those
>vans with Cablevision logos for?  Foreign spies tapping phones, perhaps?

The operator probably did you a favor. All the boxes probably have problems,
and they would likely charge you $35 for the honor of not doing anything, not
to mention you having to be at home for them to come by "sometime Thursday".
Note: heavy sarcasm intended.

>While I'm on the subject of cable TV: How come the cable
>company doesn't broadcast the evening program on a separate channel like
>so many companies do?  Instead they have been trying to get people to
>subscribe to a Cable guide for 4-5$ extra a month (which only lists a subset
>of the channels, i.e. not the network programs).  And how come they
>charge 23.50$ for *basic* service?  Don't they know there's a recession?

"We're the cable company. We can do anything we want."
- possibly misremembered quote frm the Saturday morning "Garfield" cartoon.

Actually, I was visiting the Bay area in CA in August, and things were *worse*.
There were 8-10 cable companies, each with their own monopolized area, and each
carried about 20-25 channels. They even stole 3 of the channels for the "Triple
Cast", instead of using holes like Cablevision. I hate monopolies.

BTW, I heard something second hand about the Justice Dept. not enforcing the
cable bill that got Bush's only overridden veto. Does anyone have any info
(or pointers to info) about this?

>Ahhhhhh!  That felt better!

Indeed.
--
Gordon Keener         SAS Institute, Inc.
flash@unx.sas.com     SAS Campus Dr, Cary,
+1 919 677 8000       NC 27513-2414 USA
"There is a heppy lend, fur, fur a-wa-ay." - _Krazy_Kat_, George Herriman

hardarso@weiss.cs.unc.edu (Kari Hardarson) writes:


>I (being a Cablevision customer)  received an insert with my latest
>Cable bill. The headline reads: "If you are thinking of buying a new
>VCR, beware of paying extra for one with the so-called 'VCR Plus+' 
>feature".  It goes on to explain how this feature won't do you any good
>because the VCR can't control your cable box.  The insert ends by saying:
>"Look for future messages from your cable company on this and similar
>consumer issues".

The above is true. Other useful things that cable screws over are:

cable-ready (what an oxymoron) TVs.
many "universal" remotes.
almost always, the "record one, watch another channel" feature of VCRs

>It almost sounds like the cable company is doing people a favor by warning
>about those unscrupulous VCR makers.  I can't help but think that if

Yeah, right.

>the cable boxes weren't there, this VCR Plus system would work just 
>fine.  And come to think of it,  I would be able to program my VCR
>to record a program into the week on a preselected channel, or watch
>one channel while recording another, and I could use one remote control
>instead of having to pay the Cable company extra to get a remote control
>with the cable box (1-2$/month extra).

This is true. Some systems, like Raleigh Cablevision, scramble ALL channels,
so you MUST use their box to get ANYTHING (this may have changed - I doubt
it though). Cary Cablevision (CVI) scrambles premium channels only. This
is somewhat better because you don't need a box unless you get premium
channels. I don't, so all of the VCR features are still useful. Note:
Cary customers: CVI is currently proposing to do what Raleigh does, and
scramble everything. This WILL RENDER YOUR VCR PROGRAMMING FEATURES USELESS.
It is easier and CHEAPER for the cable companies to make you have a box.
The technology exists for them to block premium channels from your house 
"at the pole". They can still enable this from the local office, too, like
they authorize your box now. BUT, it costs them more to do it this way.
Since they have an *effective* monopoly, you can't pursue alternative
methods.

>Why do we need those boxes on top of our TV?  They look ugly, they
>consume energy even when turned off (mine is always hotter than skin
>temperature) and they complicate TV watching in general.  Does anyone
>know if they benefit the consumer in any way?

See above. No, they don't benefit YOU at all. The cable companies will
argue the vague point that it helps reduce signal theft, blah, blah..
thus reducing your rates. Yeah, right. The following is a rate chart
list of what CABLE COMPANIES pay per subscriber for assorted "standard"
services. Note that you probably pay $15.00 above "Basic" cable rates
to receive "Standard" tier service.

Article: 4584 of rec.video.satellite

                  TOP-OF-THE-RATE CARD COST TO CABLE COMPANIES
                            FOR POPULAR PROGRAMMING


     PROGRAMMING                                     COST/SUBSCRIBER
============================================================================= =
Arts & Entertainment-----------------------------------------$0.130
Black Entertainment Television--------------------------------0.070
CNBC----------------------------------------------------------0.090
Cable News Network--------------------------------------------0.340
Comedy Channel------------------------------------------------0.090
Discovery Channel---------------------------------------------0.080
ESPN----------------------------------------------------------0.350
The Family Channel--------------------------------------------0.110
Financial News Network----------------------------------------0.080
Ha! TV--------------------------------------------------------0.080
Headline News Network-----------------------------------------0.340
The Learning Channel------------------------------------------0.070
Lifetime------------------------------------------------------0.130
MTV-----------------------------------------------------------0.250
Nickelodeon---------------------------------------------------0.250
Sports News Network-------------------------------------------0.080
Turner Broadcasting System------------------------------------0.100
The Nashville Network (TNN)-----------------------------------0.200
Turner Network Television (TNT)-------------------------------0.370
USA Network---------------------------------------------------0.240
Video Hits 1 (VH-1)-------------------------------------------0.040
Vision Interfaith Satellite Network (VISN)--------------------0.030
The Weather Channel-------------------------------------------0.099
                                                              ______
                     Total                                   $3.819

     (Does not reflect discounts for carrying multiple services offered by the
      same programming company)

      Source:   Paul Kagan Associates,Inc.
============================================================================= =

Premium channels are somewhat higher, but not close to the extra $10.00
you have to pay for them.

stuff deleted

>While I'm on the subject of cable TV: How come the cable
>company doesn't broadcast the evening program on a separate channel like
>so many companies do?  Instead they have been trying to get people to

Th almighty dollar. This is the same reason you have to pay the cable
companies a coupla bucks a month for remote box control, even if you want
to use your OWN remote. They won't enable the remote feature unless you
pay them. Note that this doesn't cost them a DIME extra. (one might argue
that the remote feature costs the cable companies more, because the box
has to be more capable. The incremental cost is negligible, and is a
"sunk cost" anyway.)

>Ahhhhhh!  That felt better!
>-- 
>Kari Hardarson, 217 Jackson Circle, Chapel Hill NC27514, (919)-914-5910
>When Cows laugh hard, does milk spill out their noses?
>Does the Pope french kiss the ground of a country he likes very much?
>                               - Some comedian on A&E's Improv
--
Steve Holzworth
sch@unx.sas.com
x6872
SAS Institute - Open Systems R & D
Cary, N.C.

In article <sch.721332716@gargoyle>, sch@unx.sas.com (Steve Holzworth) writes:
|> hardarso@weiss.cs.unc.edu (Kari Hardarson) writes:
|>
|>
|> >I (being a Cablevision customer)  received an insert with my latest
|> >Cable bill. The headline reads: "If you are thinking of buying a new
|> >VCR, beware of paying extra for one with the so-called 'VCR Plus+'
|> >feature".  It goes on to explain how this feature won't do you any good
|> >because the VCR can't control your cable box.  The insert ends by saying:
|> >"Look for future messages from your cable company on this and similar
|> >consumer issues".
|>
|> The above is true. Other useful things that cable screws over are:
|>
|> cable-ready (what an oxymoron) TVs.
|> many "universal" remotes.
|> almost always, the "record one, watch another channel" feature of VCRs
|>

   Your "TV-within-a-TV" doesn't work with a cable box either.

|> >It almost sounds like the cable company is doing people a favor by warning
|> >about those unscrupulous VCR makers.  I can't help but think that if
|>
|> Yeah, right.
|>
|> >the cable boxes weren't there, this VCR Plus system would work just
|> >fine.  And come to think of it,  I would be able to program my VCR
|> >to record a program into the week on a preselected channel, or watch
|> >one channel while recording another, and I could use one remote control
|> >instead of having to pay the Cable company extra to get a remote control
|> >with the cable box (1-2$/month extra).
|>
|> This is true. Some systems, like Raleigh Cablevision, scramble ALL channels,
|> so you MUST use their box to get ANYTHING (this may have changed - I doubt
|> it though). Cary Cablevision (CVI) scrambles premium channels only. This
|> is somewhat better because you don't need a box unless you get premium
|> channels. I don't, so all of the VCR features are still useful. Note:
|> Cary customers: CVI is currently proposing to do what Raleigh does, and
|> scramble everything. This WILL RENDER YOUR VCR PROGRAMMING FEATURES USELESS.
|> It is easier and CHEAPER for the cable companies to make you have a box.

   Where did you hear this? It is written into the franchise agreement with
   the Town of Cary that any company providing Cable TV must make its
   signals "Cable ready". And I beleive that if you only get HBO, they
   can descramble this at the pole, so you still would not need a box.

|> The technology exists for them to block premium channels from your house
|> "at the pole". They can still enable this from the local office, too, like
|> they authorize your box now. BUT, it costs them more to do it this way.
|> Since they have an *effective* monopoly, you can't pursue alternative
|> methods.

   CVI can block any channel from your house (if you consider the
   programming offensive) I know MTV blocking is free, don't know
   about the others.

|>
|> >Why do we need those boxes on top of our TV?  They look ugly, they
|> >consume energy even when turned off (mine is always hotter than skin
|> >temperature) and they complicate TV watching in general.  Does anyone
|> >know if they benefit the consumer in any way?
|>

    Only if you want a premium channel, PAY-PER-VIEW, or do not have
    a cable ready TV/VCR, else, your paying for a restrictive device.

|>
|> stuff deleted
|>
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David S. Tyree                  SAS Institute Inc.         sasdst@mvs.sas.com
Publishing Programmer Analyst   SAS Campus Drive           (919) 677-8000 x7405
Publications Services           Cary, NC 27513             (919) 677-8123 FAX
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   The opinions expressed are my own and not those of SAS Institute Inc.,
   Town of Cary, State of North Carolina, United States of America, or Earth.

sasdst@earl.unx.sas.com (David S. Tyree) writes:


This is going to get technical:

stuff deleted

I wrote:
>|> Cary customers: CVI is currently proposing to do what Raleigh does, and
>|> scramble everything. This WILL RENDER YOUR VCR PROGRAMMING FEATURES USELESS.
>|> It is easier and CHEAPER for the cable companies to make you have a box.

>   Where did you hear this? It is written into the franchise agreement with
>   the Town of Cary that any company providing Cable TV must make its
>   signals "Cable ready". And I beleive that if you only get HBO, they
>   can descramble this at the pole, so you still would not need a box.

I read it in a newspaper report awhile back. It was part of a discussion
involving revising CVI's contract, in addition to adding capability.
Just because it's in the contract now doesn't mean it won't disappear
in future revisions (but I'm glad it's there now).

As far as Cary and HBO: there are several different methods of stopping
or allowing channels into your home:

1) scrambling via sync inversion/sync stripping/signal inversion.
Cary CVI does this for premium channels other than HBO.
The descrambler is either a box on your TV (typical), or a box on the
pole (or ground unit). Either method MAY allow remote authorizations
by the cable company via sending a signal down the cable itself to your
box (addressable convertors). Older units had a programmed key built 
in which had to be changed manually by the cable company if you changed
your service level. When I first moved to Cary, Alert used this method.
You had to take your box to the cable office to upgrade or downgrade
service level. The box on the pole is more expensive because it must
be able to decode ALL channels and pass them ALL through to your house
at once (so you can tune to any given one). The box on your TV just
has to descramble ONE channel at a time, which it typically puts out
on channel 3 or 4. 

2) jamming. Cary CVI does this for HBO. They overlay a jamming signal on
the unscrambled channel signal. The jamming keeps your TV/VCR from 
processing the video and/or audio into a picture. They typically have to
drive out to your house to turn this on or off at the pole.

3) trapping: this is mostly not used anymore, but may be how they block
MTV for the smaller set of people that specifically want it OFF.
What is referred to as a "notch" filter (one or more) is placed in the
cable running to your house (or at the pole). The filter removes the signal
for the specific channel they are blocking. Multiple traps may be used,
but the signal is degraded for each trap added, so normally only one
or two are used.

stuff deleted

>   CVI can block any channel from your house (if you consider the
>   programming offensive) I know MTV blocking is free, don't know
>   about the others.

See above...

>|>
>|> >Why do we need those boxes on top of our TV?  They look ugly, they

 stuff deleted

>    Only if you want a premium channel, PAY-PER-VIEW, or do not have
>    a cable ready TV/VCR, else, your paying for a restrictive device.

Amen.

>-- 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>David S. Tyree                  SAS Institute Inc.         sasdst@mvs.sas.com
>Publishing Programmer Analyst   SAS Campus Drive           (919) 677-8000 x7405
>Publications Services           Cary, NC 27513             (919) 677-8123 FAX
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   The opinions expressed are my own and not those of SAS Institute Inc.,
>   Town of Cary, State of North Carolina, United States of America, or Earth.
--
Steve Holzworth
sch@unx.sas.com
x6872
SAS Institute - Open Systems R & D
Cary, N.C.

sch@unx.sas.com (Steve Holzworth) writes:
>This is true. Some systems, like Raleigh Cablevision, scramble ALL channels,
>so you MUST use their box to get ANYTHING (this may have changed - I doubt

    After a good rain storm, the static is so high on the upper channels that
    the descrambling looses lock, and the stations go to 'black'.
    But even if its not raining it can take 20 seconds to aquire a station
    as you are flipping around.  Sometimes this requires going to an adjacent
    station, aquiring lock, then returning to your choice.

    The VHF band is not scrambled, but this doesn't mean that the Zenith
    converter boxes will not randomly "drop to black" briefly on Saturdays
    from 7 to 8pm. (Fox 22 on channel 2)

>Vision Interfaith Satellite Network (VISN)--------------------0.030

    Does this mean that part of my $56/month is paying for religious
    programming?  I didn't see QVC or HSC in that list.  At least "The Family
    Channel" runs some old re-runs and sitcoms.


Jeff Bartlett
jb@rti.rti.org

I used to get along fine with Cablevision in Raleigh - they dropped the
scrambler box a few years ago and you could make full use of your
"cable ready" VCR and TV - I guess that means they converted to a
pole mounted gadget that scrambled or blocked channels I didn't
subscribe to. Then I moved to Chapel Hill and back into the dark ages -
once again a scrambler box with yet another remote control - and no
way to effectively use my VCR for more than 1 channel. 

Does anyone make a programmer that has a "learner" IR transmitter so you
could teach it to control your VCR and your scrambler box ???

In Cable Vision of Carrboro, the "Basic" channels are unscrambled, so you
can hook you VCR between the wall outlet & the descrambler to record channels
2 thru 12 (I think) even while viewing channels on TV via the scrambler.

The downside, of course, is that you can't record channels above 12 w/out
redoing the cables.

>Does anyone make a programmer that has a "learner" IR transmitter so you
>could teach it to control your VCR and your scrambler box ???

I may be mistaken, but I beleive that VCR Plus will do this.  RCA has a new
VCR out with VCR Plus and an emitter that faces up through the top of the VCR 
so that it can control your cable box.  You just position your cable box on top
or above the VCR so that it can "see" the emitted signal.  There's a review of
this VCR in this months Video magazine.
-- 
Bill Arnette, SAS Institute Inc.  (919)677-8000x6193  | saswta@unx.sas.com
SAS Campus Drive, Cary, NC 27513  (919)677-8123(fax)  | ...!mcnc!sas!saswta

In addition to the Motorola CP8, which learns your other remote(s),
the new edition of Pop Sci has remote in its "What's New" section which
uses an LCD touch panel to make the buttons. Presumably, the buttons
have changeable legends (or possibly just turn off unused buttons).
It's approx $100.00. They do show a picture of it.


--
Steve Holzworth
sch@unx.sas.com
x6872
SAS Institute - Open Systems R & D
Cary, N.C.