🚀 go-pugleaf

vonroach <vonroach@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 00:47:02 +0000 (UTC), srt@nospam.unt.edu wrote:

>>vonroach <vonroach@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 20:05:35 GMT, Hagbard Celine
>>> <All_Powerful@Illuminati.org> wrote:
>>
>>>>Should a zealously patriotic atheist have the right to participate in
>>>>a voluntary program created by government without being forced to make
>>>>statements contrary to their religious belief?
>>
>>> Moronic hypothetical question. Give a specific example. You will find
>>> that none exists, Hogbreath.
>>
>>There are many examples, Roachbutt.  How about me?  I don't buy into
>>the "one nation under God" thing, but I am still patriotic, love my
>>country, but if I say the pledge as approved by Congress to show my
>>loyalty then I am indeed forced to make statements contrary to my
>>religious belief.  Is that too difficult to understand?

> But no one is forcing you Hogbreath. Actually you are trying to force
> your opinions on others (protected by the 1st Amendment from bigots
> like you.

You must have missed the "if I say the pledge as approved by Congress"
part.  Here's the question:  Can I pledge allegience to my country, in
the government-approved way, without having to make statements
contrary to my religious belief?  The answer to that is pretty clearly
no.  And that is pretty clearly wrong.

And in what perverse way am I trying to force my opinion on others?
Unless you consider it "my opinion" that the government should not
promote one particular religious view over others.  There were some
radicals back in the late 1700's that thought the same thing, you
know...

>>What about Hindus or Buddhists?  They also couldn't say the pledge
>>without contradicting their religious views.  Are you saying there are
>>no patriotic Hindus or Buddhists in the U.S.?

> Again, I say nobody is forcing them to say anything. It is a problem
> only for ignorant bigots such as yourself.

It's a two part statement -- if they want to use the approved pledge,
the government forces them to say something contrary to their
beliefs.  Don't forget the "if" part of the implication...  it's basic
logic, ya know.

Here's another example, just for you Roachie-poo.  What if the
official pledge contained the line "one nation, under the wonderful
guideance of our greatest president ever, Bill Clinton."  So now here
are your two options:  don't show loyalty to your country, or say
something supporting Bill Clinton.  Which would you choose, bug-boy?

-- 
Steve Tate - srt[At]cs.unt.edu | "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster
Dept. of Computer Sciences     | than any invention in human history with the
University of North Texas      | possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."
Denton, TX  76201              |         -- Mitch Ratliffe, April 1992