🚀 go-pugleaf

Seems perfectly suited for expensive purchase by HMG / Uncle Tony then.

D

"willy" <will_hurst2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a97a6dcd.0307080616.7a5ac32e@posting.google.com...
> FYI (originally in German it seems),
>
> Major TETRA project ends in technical fiasco
>
> Vienna, Austria
>
>  07 July 2003
>
> The Austrian Federal Ministry of Interior (BM.I) has put an end to the
>  ?300 million ADONIS project. The contract, awarded in July 2002 to a
> consortium called master-talk, was for the rollout and operation of a
> nationwide radiocommunication network based on the TETRA technology.
> Austrian Public Safety organizations were expected to use this new
> system for their communications needs.
>
> But the project has aborted due to major problems during the technical
> validation of the TETRA system provided by German manufacturer Rohde &
> Schwarz.
>
> An engineer of the BM.I project team, who wanted to remain anonymous,
> was quoted to say: "We would put the lives of the Austrian citizens
> but also of our own emergency personnel at risk with a radio system
> which is obviously still in the prototype stage. What we want and need
> is a radio that works at the touch of a button. Here we had something
> totally unreliable and therefore we could not accept this system".
>
> Siemens Austria, the system integrator, never passed the acceptance
> tests, originally scheduled for March 2003. The engineer added:
> "Allowing the manufacturer a few months more would not have been a
> solution because it was not simply a question of fine-tuning the
> system. We were dealing with critical issues: radio coverage was very
> poor for instance. And the system was completely unstable. Sometimes
> we had to turn off and on radio equipment to restore the service or to
> have the radio handsets correctly registered while roaming throughout
> the network. Communications were also frequently cut off for no
> reason."
>
> The BM.I have said that this technical fiasco will not change their
> plans to have a shared radio network for the Austrian "blue light"
> organizations. But it might change their technological choice. It is
> expected that a new invitation to tender will be issued within one
> year.

Anything digital is crap.......


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why is that?
digital offers much more in the way of services, data and voice shared
on the one system

the future is all digital

Kev

"jim.gm4dhj" wrote:
> 
> Anything digital is crap.......
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03

Bull....just went downstairs and the wife was watching stuttering and
jumping video and audio on NTL tv channels... and ntl had just fixed another
fault yesterday...good old analog tv and sat tv never had any trouble with
that.....


---
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.....And analog cell phones were far superior to digital...in the future you
will all be conned by DIGITAL.


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sky satellite is digital
"jim.gm4dhj" <jim.gm4dhj@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:J3FOa.809$pQ2.64329@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> Bull....just went downstairs and the wife was watching stuttering and
> jumping video and audio on NTL tv channels... and ntl had just fixed
another
> fault yesterday...good old analog tv and sat tv never had any trouble with
> that.....
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03
>
>

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:39:36 +0100, "jim.gm4dhj"
<jim.gm4dhj@ntlworld.com> wrote:


>.....And analog cell phones were far superior to digital...in the future you
>will all be conned by DIGITAL.

Hahhhaaha.. yes I remember the drops outs in analogue were far
superior to the drop outs I hardly get now.







>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03
>
>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

That's one of the best come back I have seen on this NG.
"scanman" <nospam@nospam.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f0b2017.1285625@news.internode.on.net...
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:39:36 +0100, "jim.gm4dhj"
> <jim.gm4dhj@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
> >.....And analog cell phones were far superior to digital...in the future
you
> >will all be conned by DIGITAL.
>
> Hahhhaaha.. yes I remember the drops outs in analogue were far
> superior to the drop outs I hardly get now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >---
> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03
> >
> >
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.0 (Build 294) Beta

iQA/AwUBPws2MSGakPXr24F/EQLlsQCgnNKfcainlPABFr4IZ1b2QpkbEKIAoJ4j
pfB0VAFE7fDBIBu7aORy8zLp
=J5s/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

>sky satellite is digital

Was analog... or are you too young to remember?.....


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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jim.gm4dhj wrote:
>> sky satellite is digital
>
> Was analog... or are you too young to remember?.....

good old analog when the signal faded the picture went a bit snowy ,
but you could still see/hear it.
--
Jon

Yes great wasn't it....you could always tell it was snowing outside......


---
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As is known BT Airwave have a contract to supply TETRA services to
police in UK.As stated before the system is not secure,and handsets
offer potentially serious RF hazards to users,as well as interfering
with other electrical equipment nearby(eg breathalisers).We have not
even mentioned the problem of putting up more base stations,with the
consequent planning problems.

Push to talk GSM/GPRS is a perfectly good solution,which is being used
elsewhere.GSM is much more secure than TETRA(particularly the A5-2/3
algorithms),which is important when handsets may well interrogate the
PNC and other police computer systems,wirelessly.GPRS with push to
talk will allow far better data upload/download than TETRA can
provide,and the base station network already exists,in most areas.

If you want to see how well TETRA has done in the UK,just look at
Dolphin,the consumer TETRA service.It's losing lots of money for it's
new owners!

kevcat <KevAlone@dodo.com.au> wrote in message news:<3F0AFA4A.9F01866E@dodo.com.au>...
> why is that?
> digital offers much more in the way of services, data and voice shared
> on the one system
> 
> the future is all digital
> 
> Kev
> 
> "jim.gm4dhj" wrote:
> > 
> > Anything digital is crap.......
> > 
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03

Digital is kickarse for them, but it sucks for us..

What is stopping them using the same kind of digital system as a mobile
phone network? we couldnt listen in at all and that would suck... our radio
equipment would be useless.


"kevcat" <KevAlone@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3F0AFA4A.9F01866E@dodo.com.au...
> why is that?
> digital offers much more in the way of services, data and voice shared
> on the one system
>
> the future is all digital
>
> Kev
>
> "jim.gm4dhj" wrote:
> >
> > Anything digital is crap.......
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03

"jim.gm4dhj" <jim.gm4dhj@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:J3FOa.809$pQ2.64329@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> Bull....just went downstairs and the wife was watching stuttering and
> jumping video and audio on NTL tv channels... and ntl had just fixed another
> fault yesterday...good old analogue tv and sat tv never had any trouble with
> that.....
>
NTL analogue before digital, had double analogue encryption of premium channels
It was like trying to watch a movie through a net curtain :-(

If you have jumping video it's probably due to insufficient signal,
have NTL check the signal level on your cable

Steve Terry

"jim.gm4dhj" <jim.gm4dhj@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:c5FOa.810$pQ2.64519@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> .....And analog cell phones were far superior to digital...in the future you
> will all be conned by DIGITAL.
>
and the lack of SMS /  WAP / DATA, MMS, etc, etc.

Steve Terry

>have NTL check the signal level on your >cable

They can do what they like with it I don't care..........


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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>and the lack of SMS /  WAP / DATA, >MMS, etc, etc.

Frivolous and useless ....SMS for kiddies saves them passing messages on
paper around school...  WAP useless  ....unless you are a football moron or
want the LOTO results   SORTED!    ...


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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christophe wrote:

> As is known BT Airwave have a contract to supply TETRA services to
> police in UK.As stated before the system is not secure,and handsets
> offer potentially serious RF hazards to users,as well as interfering
> with other electrical equipment nearby(eg breathalisers).We have not
> even mentioned the problem of putting up more base stations,with the
> consequent planning problems.

ISTR one attraction of TETRA is that it fits the same VHF frequency
allocations as the old analog walkie-talkies, but is a modern digital
system offering services such as data and dial-out to PSTN that the analog
walkie talkies could never provide.  And at least you can't pick it up on a
handheld scanner without using a digitizer and some decoding software.

If TETRA runs at the same frequency as the old analog sets, then it's funny
how health issues have suddenly appeared, and how its detractors assume
that GSM handsets are safe when radiating next to the head at 2 watts.

TETRA will require far fewer base stations than a private GSM network.
 
> Push to talk GSM/GPRS is a perfectly good solution,which is being used
> elsewhere.

Requires more spectrum, which isn't free at VHF (which is desirable for
enhanced range compared with GSM).  Of course you could invent a GSM-like
service at VHF - oh, wait a minute, it would look remarkably like TETRA by
the time you'd actually visited some of the engineering compromises...

> GSM is much more secure than TETRA(particularly the A5-2/3
> algorithms),which is important when handsets may well interrogate the
> PNC and other police computer systems,wirelessly.

Implementation issue.  No reason why TETRA can't have crypto, just not as
well standardised yet as with GSM.

> GPRS with push to
> talk will allow far better data upload/download than TETRA can
> provide,and the base station network already exists,in most areas.

Of couse using more spectrum would give higher data rates.  But the existing
base station network is patchy in rural areas, and can get overloaded in
major emergencies, which can be a problem even if emergency service users
have priority status.

> If you want to see how well TETRA has done in the UK,just look at
> Dolphin,the consumer TETRA service.It's losing lots of money for it's
> new owners!

Which has everything to do with marketing, and nothing to do with technical
issues.  TETRA is a specialist product which isn't really aimed at
consumers.  I sometimes use Dolphin in remote rural areas that lack GSM
coverage - enhanced range is what it's about (and for the emergency
services, of course not relying on consumer infrastrcture is important).

- Martin.

trouble with GSM not relaible enough in an emergency,same as TETRA,it
requires too many aerial sites for a start.

the current police radio system does the job it is supposed to do in most
areas,ok not secure,but secure is only really needed by certain users.

ie special branch/firearms/cid a normal officer does not need secure radio.

GSM yes the power companies have been chucking there radio licenses away
over last year or so and going GSM.

what happend in January this year in the bad weather,contact with mobile
electricity board teams was lost but only in the areas where they had
switched to GSM,those still using MP1327 trunk net,comms were ok.

we had no power for some time,the lady at there control,had no idea who was
out working or where they were,she said there mobile phone network had been
knocked out by the bad weather in some areas.

you can use both systems,any pnc check should be done by mobile phone,but
for regular policing then just normal radio.

but make sure all specialist teams are secure

its a joke that in the UK special branch and royalty protection are using
analogue comms on freq they have used for years.




--
--
Paul Wey
PROMA1
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scanpromauk

for main proma files sent to your inbox monthly join

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/promafiles
For good prices on scanners go to

Stewart Aviation

http://www.stewart-aviation.co.uk/rs/index.html
"christophe" <christopheclark@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1a7b6469.0307081432.4a1a12a3@posting.google.com...
> As is known BT Airwave have a contract to supply TETRA services to
> police in UK.As stated before the system is not secure,and handsets
> offer potentially serious RF hazards to users,as well as interfering
> with other electrical equipment nearby(eg breathalisers).We have not
> even mentioned the problem of putting up more base stations,with the
> consequent planning problems.
>
> Push to talk GSM/GPRS is a perfectly good solution,which is being used
> elsewhere.GSM is much more secure than TETRA(particularly the A5-2/3
> algorithms),which is important when handsets may well interrogate the
> PNC and other police computer systems,wirelessly.GPRS with push to
> talk will allow far better data upload/download than TETRA can
> provide,and the base station network already exists,in most areas.
>
> If you want to see how well TETRA has done in the UK,just look at
> Dolphin,the consumer TETRA service.It's losing lots of money for it's
> new owners!
>
> kevcat <KevAlone@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:<3F0AFA4A.9F01866E@dodo.com.au>...
> > why is that?
> > digital offers much more in the way of services, data and voice shared
> > on the one system
> >
> > the future is all digital
> >
> > Kev
> >
> > "jim.gm4dhj" wrote:
> > >
> > > Anything digital is crap.......
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03

"jim.gm4dhj" <jim.gm4dhj@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:uuPOa.42$0w6.8743@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> >and the lack of SMS /  WAP / DATA, >MMS, etc, etc.
>
> Frivolous and useless ....SMS for kiddies saves them passing messages on
> paper around school...  WAP useless  ....unless you are a football moron
or
> want the LOTO results   SORTED!    ...

so paging is /was a trivial tool ? and SMS has the functionality of acting
as two way paging as well

data  has it's purposes , not sure about MMS given current  2.5 / 3 G
technology


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 04/07/2003

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:00:19 +1000, "Digitalebola"
<administrator@digitalsignals.org.NOSPAM> wrote:

>Digital is kickarse for them, but it sucks for us..

Maybe for you, but not for everyone.
>
>What is stopping them using the same kind of digital system as a mobile
>phone network? we couldnt listen in at all and that would suck... our radio
>equipment would be useless.

Whats stoping them is the current digital mobiles they already use,
therefore there is no need to use there radio system as a mobile
phone.

By the way your radio equipment wouldnt be useless, you would just
have to open your mind a bit and listen to something else other then
the coppers all the time.
>
>
>"kevcat" <KevAlone@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
>news:3F0AFA4A.9F01866E@dodo.com.au...
>> why is that?
>> digital offers much more in the way of services, data and voice shared
>> on the one system
>>
>> the future is all digital
>>
>> Kev
>>
>> "jim.gm4dhj" wrote:
>> >
>> > Anything digital is crap.......
>> >
>> > ---
>> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> > Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03
>
>

Willy and others,

This message is not "hot", originally published in June
2001..................see http://www.x-media.at/heft62001/22.pdf

Huub Roem, the Netherlands.



"willy" <will_hurst2003@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:a97a6dcd.0307080616.7a5ac32e@posting.google.com...
> FYI (originally in German it seems),
>
> Major TETRA project ends in technical fiasco
>
> Vienna, Austria
>
>  07 July 2003
>
> The Austrian Federal Ministry of Interior (BM.I) has put an end to the
>  ?300 million ADONIS project. The contract, awarded in July 2002 to a
> consortium called master-talk, was for the rollout and operation of a
> nationwide radiocommunication network based on the TETRA technology.
> Austrian Public Safety organizations were expected to use this new
> system for their communications needs.
>
> But the project has aborted due to major problems during the technical
> validation of the TETRA system provided by German manufacturer Rohde &
> Schwarz.
>
> An engineer of the BM.I project team, who wanted to remain anonymous,
> was quoted to say: "We would put the lives of the Austrian citizens
> but also of our own emergency personnel at risk with a radio system
> which is obviously still in the prototype stage. What we want and need
> is a radio that works at the touch of a button. Here we had something
> totally unreliable and therefore we could not accept this system".
>
> Siemens Austria, the system integrator, never passed the acceptance
> tests, originally scheduled for March 2003. The engineer added:
> "Allowing the manufacturer a few months more would not have been a
> solution because it was not simply a question of fine-tuning the
> system. We were dealing with critical issues: radio coverage was very
> poor for instance. And the system was completely unstable. Sometimes
> we had to turn off and on radio equipment to restore the service or to
> have the radio handsets correctly registered while roaming throughout
> the network. Communications were also frequently cut off for no
> reason."
>
> The BM.I have said that this technical fiasco will not change their
> plans to have a shared radio network for the Austrian "blue light"
> organizations. But it might change their technological choice. It is
> expected that a new invitation to tender will be issued within one
> year.

the police have been conned into digital.
if they used digital for what its worth (transfer of data and voice etc etc)
all at the same time, it 'might' make a little sense, but its crap.
the voice sounds like donald duck (great inprovement hey) and has a delay
which frustrates all the coppers when they doing 'urgent duty' and start
talking over each other.

GSM telephone systems require a huge amount of infrastructure to give you
the coverage,,,, so the enemy just fires a bomb in the middle of the city
and your GSM system will probally fall over.

Digital TV is great to watch...... if your in range..... if you on the
fringe you get nothing at all where analogue at least you get a pic with
some snow

but it seems that we are stuck with it because the government says so


jim.gm4dhj wrote in message ...
>Anything digital is crap.......
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03
>
>

"john" <rescue999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:78lPa.5715$oN.241810@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> Digital TV is great to watch...... if your in range..... if you on the
> fringe you get nothing at all where analogue at least you get a pic with
> some snow
>
> but it seems that we are stuck with it because the government says so

Before now, the rumour was that all transmitters (inc. relay) would be
upgraded to digital, possibly more relay stations would be set up and power
levels increased to ensure top-notch coverage.

But today, I heard the following rumour: the power for all of the "main"
transmitters will be increased (old news) but also that the government isn't
planning to upgrade the relay stations to support digital.  The estimates
are for 90% coverage by main transmitters due to the increased power (the
power levels are already creeping up but it won't be for a while until they
meet the target) and for the rest... Sky.  IMO, this is clearly absurd - the
terrestrial service only reaching 90% of the country...

Not sure I believe it to be... but anything could happen!  Anyone heard the
same?

--
Dominic, M3CMH

"Dominic" <dominic@computerkb.co.ihatespam.uk> wrote in message
news:bemvd9$una$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> "john" <rescue999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:78lPa.5715$oN.241810@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> > Digital TV is great to watch...... if your in range..... if you on the
> > fringe you get nothing at all where analogue at least you get a pic with
> > some snow
> >
> > but it seems that we are stuck with it because the government says so
>
> Before now, the rumour was that all transmitters (inc. relay) would be
> upgraded to digital, possibly more relay stations would be set up and
power
> levels increased to ensure top-notch coverage.
>
> But today, I heard the following rumour: the power for all of the "main"
> transmitters will be increased (old news) but also that the government
isn't
> planning to upgrade the relay stations to support digital.  The estimates
> are for 90% coverage by main transmitters due to the increased power (the
> power levels are already creeping up but it won't be for a while until
they
> meet the target) and for the rest... Sky.  IMO, this is clearly absurd -
the
> terrestrial service only reaching 90% of the country...
>
> Not sure I believe it to be... but anything could happen!  Anyone heard
the
> same?
>
> --
> Dominic, M3CMH
>
>


If it follows the usual format that will be 90% of the population, not the
country.


-- 
Woody

harrogate@ntlworld.com

"harrogate" <harrogate@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:HgFPa.7442$ju6.137257@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
>
> "Dominic" <dominic@computerkb.co.ihatespam.uk> wrote in message
> news:bemvd9$una$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > The estimates are for 90% coverage by main transmitters due to the
increased power (the
> > power levels are already creeping up but it won't be for a while until
they
> > meet the target) and for the rest... Sky.  IMO, this is clearly absurd -
the
> > terrestrial service only reaching 90% of the country...
> >
> > Not sure I believe it to be... but anything could happen!  Anyone heard
the
> > same?
> >
> > --
> > Dominic, M3CMH
>
> If it follows the usual format that will be 90% of the population, not the
> country.
>
> --
> Woody

Ah yes, thank you!  Being picky today? ;-)  <g>

--
Dominic, M3CMH

>
>jim.gm4dhj wrote in message ...
>>Anything digital is crap.......
>>
>>
>>---
>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03
>>
>>
>
>
In article <78lPa.5715$oN.241810@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>, john
<rescue999@hotmail.com> writes
>the police have been conned into digital.
>if they used digital for what its worth (transfer of data and voice etc etc)
>all at the same time, it 'might' make a little sense, but its crap.
>the voice sounds like donald duck (great inprovement hey) and has a delay
>which frustrates all the coppers when they doing 'urgent duty' and start
>talking over each other.
>
>GSM telephone systems require a huge amount of infrastructure to give you
>the coverage,,,, so the enemy just fires a bomb in the middle of the city
>and your GSM system will probally fall over.
>
>Digital TV is great to watch...... if your in range..... if you on the
>fringe you get nothing at all where analogue at least you get a pic with
>some snow
>

Yes. And I love the way that a football field turns into a green carpet
when the camera pans to follow the action. I also understand that DAB
digital radio quality is actually lower quality than a good FM signal.

>but it seems that we are stuck with it because the government says so

When ALL transmissions are digital, there will no 'simple' radio, SWLs,
no DX, in fact no radio hobbies as we presently know it. We will all be
provided with what the powers that be decree is good for us, and have to
subscribe for the privilege. Anything presently free will have to be
paid for.
Ian.