🚀 go-pugleaf

  Dear Baja

Ok.  It is clear I need to slow down, not use big words and maybe start
employing basic drawings.

First - Although I was really very impressed with your ability to turn a
discussion about race and national origin so quickly into a sexist
platitude: I.E. the down your throat thing.

Read the message again, but slower this time:

"I am married to a wonderfull woman
whose last name is of hispanic origin.
She, like me, is also Danish."

I am not a woman.  I am sure you concluded this because of the name Shannon
associated with this address.  Think about it Baja, if I'm automatically a
woman because my email address says Shannon, then you are a rat.  Is it
true?  Are you a rat?  Is it hard to type with those scurious little paws of
yours?

I am pretty sure that now this has been pointed out to you, a fun filled
phrase will soon follow most likely saying I am a woman after all or better
yet that I am gay.  I hope I am wrong but after that last little response of
yours----you know, the little fuck you sound bite thing ---  I expect very
little from you in the way of intelligent responses.

Second.  I do not give a flying fuck whether you come to Utah or not.
Obviously if I had my rathers your ass would be back in California but I do
not FOOL myself into believing that that is really my choice as you seem to
believe it is yours to say who is and is not legitamately here in Utah.

I also have no problem with your ranting about the influx of illegals across
the boarder into California.  Just don't direct that shit this way.  Utah
really doesn't need that bullshit.  There is enough here already without the
likes of your strain of infectious ooze.

Third, you fool no one but yourself that your rantinging is limited only to
the illegals who have come across the boarder from Mexico.  Your attacks
have consistently been directed at "corrupt Mexican officials."  Unless you
want to go back and revise what you've said time and time again, your beef
is not just with illegals.  Your beef is with race.

I would guess that the best example of your real beef being about race is
that you attack Ortega.  Let me challenge you on that.  I mean it.  Here is
your chance to show everyone out there just how fucking RIGHT YOU ARE.  I
want you to locate any real documentation that the Ortega you bash is an
illegal from Mexico, or anywhere else south of the boarder.  I don't want to
see any of that "hea go to this web site and you'll see" and when I do, I
see nothing but the rantings of some psychotic fuck like yourself who is
paying $20 a month to put his crap out on the web.  I'll let you in on a
little secret:  THAT SHIT IS NOT REAL!  It's on the internet you fucking
idiot.  Anyone can put shit on the internet.  Think about about it ratface,
if I published Dr. Seuss on the web, would that mean that Horton really did
hear a Who?  (I'm sorry that was a reference to a book most people read when
they were growing up).

I doubt you will take my challenge.  In fact, I know you will not.  I know
you didn't follow my suggestion (challenge) that you talk to your neighbors
and watch for that certain hesitation in their voice.  Go on.  Do it.  There
is nothing to be afraid of.  DO IT!  No, it's easier just to assume you are
welcome where ever you go.  Oh, I know you have your little followers who
feel bigger when they're behind you saying "yea, yea, you tell 'em."  But,
for the most part, yours is a bad smell that few people want in their
neighborhood.  I know I cannot move you back where you came from, but I can
burst the bubble at every turn in that sick journey of yours in order to
prevent what you've got from spreading.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we're on number four.  Since you
obviously fear any kind of historical context to this discussion (sorry am I
being rude?  I guess it's not polite to make fun of the historically
challenged.  was the Dr. Seuss reference too much?), I will turn the
discussion another way so you might be able to follow along.  There is some
history here but it's not real old stuff like that last round we had.

Throughout the seventies and eighties California was wondering what to do
with its criminal population.  Yes, many were gang-bangers and there were
many of them who were pretty dangerous folks.  Not all, but some, maybe even
a lot.  Anyway, California gets the fucking hair brained idea that it would
be good to give these criminals a choice:  Either go to prison for what may
well be the rest of your life, or take this bus ticket to Utah and don't
come back.  Which choice would you guess was made most often?  That's right,
a whole shit load of Californians headed out to the land of Zion with
nothing but the promise of a new way of life (for those left behind in
California that is).

Anyway, as time progressed, Utah started having something of a gang problem.
Even an organized drug distribution problem.  Task forces were established.
Money was spent.  How are we going to deal with the problem of less
desirables coming into our state?  I still wonder that same thing when I
read your horse shit.  So don't tell me about the problems California has
had with its boarders.  Fuck California!  It had its chances to deal with
the social problems it now faces and failed to do it.  Had California
exercised some foresight, maybe things would be different there.  If they
can get their shit together great, but until then, I don't want to hear the
likes of you trying to convince everyone that what happened in California is
what is going to happen in Utah.  You don't know shit about Utah.  Until you
learn something about it, shut your trap. (I hope this helps answer
Rothman's question)

Five?  But whose keeping track?  Your comment about living in the past is
very revealing.  You say how dangerous it is?  Well sir, it is also
dangerous not to know where you've come from.  Lest you soon get lost, a
journey includes not only the knowledge of where you are but also where
you've been and where you're going.  You would know this if you spent less
time in the process of excretion and some, any, just a tid-bit, of time
absorbing some knowledge.  Education my boy.  I speak to you of education.

Six.  I wish you had flushed out the comment about immigration law.  What
are you saying?  Why should I learn more about immigration law?  Is that
really all you are talking about?  Law reform?  You want to reform the law?
That is not what it sounded like you wanted to do.  I have been involved
everyday for many years now in discussions about reforming the law and the
discussion (if that's what it can be called) that you were engaged in
sounded nothing like those I see and hear.

In short, what the Fuck do you know of immigration law?  Or any law for that
matter?  Are you referring again to the babble you read on the web?  I am
asking you.  Please tell me.  I want to know what the hell you meant.

Seven.  To your freind Bill who cannot understand why I am down the
"anti-illegals people" and believes I am once of those "individuals who are
removed from it by region or job class?"  Bill, I am sure you mean well.
But you do not know anything about me, my class, job, etc.  So, I will tell
you.  I was raised in Utah my whole life, in a part of the Salt Lake Valley
where there the Hispanic population was very significant.  I went to a high
school that was very segrated socially between the "Mexicans and everyone
else.  I am white.  I grew up very poor.  The bottom of the bottom class.  I
have worked along side Hispanics when I worked in autobody shops,
construction jobs and any other kind of job I had along the way.  Did I ever
loose out on employment because a "Mexican" got the job?  Probably, but I
also have lost out on a few because a caucasion got the job, sometimes even
a Californian.  I knew no one from the white collar crowd until I was well
into my late teens.  So as far as class goes, your wrong.  I am not so far
removed.  As for geography, yes it's true.  I have never lived in
California.  Nor do I have plans to but guess what.  This discussion is
going on at utah.general.alt and I have responded purely from a Utah
perspective.  What my point has been is that I am sick of people drawing
conclusions from their experiences in California and bringing them her to
Utah.  This is not California!!!  That is what BajaRat has done over and
over again, and it makes me sick.  Utah is not the land of multiculturalism
as was suggested by someone earlier.  I cannot believe that that was even
suggested.  That peson has either never been to Utah, or has just arrived.
Racism is alive and well in the land of Zion.  Narrow mindedness is alive
and well in the land of Zion.

(p.s. for BAJA since he is now living in Utah: the word "Zion" is pronounced
like the word "lion" not the word "ion."  So, just in case you're alreay in
Utah, stop pronouncing it that way because everyone knows you're from
California when you do.  See aren't I nice to let you in on a little Utah
culture?)

Eight, and the last one.  I know you will be attracted to certain kinds of
responses and I just want to run through two obvious ones so you do not have
to waste your time and mine.  You could:
    a)  Dismiss all I say by labelling me a "liberal."  Think again.  All
this kind of response says is that you have no other response.  Furthermore,
you do not know what my ideologies are.
    b)  Include more cool sound bites and special effects, preferably along
the line of "fuck you cunt."  While worth a giggle or two, this little prank
really did show just exactly where you are coming from.  (also see a.
above).
    You have made many many bold statements and some assertions that need
some explaining and support.  I hope you resist childish impulses to simply
rant some more in hopes that my challenges will be lost in the group as it
grows.  You're free to call me a fuck face and all that but damn it, I want
substance as well.
    YOU SAID, YOU DEFEND IT.