Thread View: vmsnet.misc
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Started by Dick Munroe
Thu, 08 Oct 1992 14:02
Callable Notes question.
Author: Dick Munroe
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 14:02
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 14:02
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Using the undocumented callable notes interface, is there any way to "forge" the sender field so that the topic or reply looks as if it came from another person? The information I have implies that this can't be done, by not having the capability available. Posting on behalf of another user is really necessary when it comes to writing gateways into Notes. If the process has to be suitably privileged, that's ok. I'm just curious if the mechanism exists at all. If it DOESN'T exist in callable notes itself, how would you go about forging such an identity? Dick Munroe
Re: Callable Notes question.
Author: Paul Repacholi
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 12:33
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 12:33
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In article <1992Oct8.100246.4634@dmc.com>, munroe@dmc.com (Dick Munroe) writes: ... > If it DOESN'T exist in callable notes itself, how would you go about forging > such an identity? > Well, its just the user name from the process header, plus SYS$NODE... ~Paul
Re: Callable Notes question.
Author: Dick Munroe
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 03:13
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 03:13
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In article <1992Oct9.213352.1@cc.curtin.edu.au>, zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi) writes: > In article <1992Oct8.100246.4634@dmc.com>, munroe@dmc.com (Dick Munroe) writes: > ... >> If it DOESN'T exist in callable notes itself, how would you go about forging >> such an identity? >> > Well, its just the user name from the process header, plus SYS$NODE... > > ~Paul > Not exactly. Most likely it's the SCCS node name and retrieved from GETSYI. If you change SYS$NODE and attempt a post to a topic, you STILL get the right node name. -- Dick Munroe Internet: munroe@dmc.com Doyle Munroe Consultants, Inc. UUCP: ...uunet!thehulk!munroe 267 Cox St. Office: (508) 568-1618 Hudson, Ma. FAX: (508) 562-1133 GET CONNECTED!!! Send mail to info@dmc.com to find out about DMConnection.
Re: Callable Notes question.
Author: Ehud Gavron 602-570-2000 x. 2546
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 10:39
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 10:39
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In article <1992Oct12.231359.4635@dmc.com>, munroe@dmc.com (Dick Munroe) writes... [About forging a Notes identity] #>> #> Well, its just the user name from the process header, plus SYS$NODE... #> #> ~Paul #> # #Not exactly. Most likely it's the SCCS node name and retrieved from GETSYI. ??????????? ??????????? Computer software doesn't do "likely" things. It does what it's coded to. Paul was right, it is gotten from SYS$NODE. Dick is wrong, it is NOT gotten from the SCS (not SCCS) node name via GETSYI. It is easy to verify this: #If you change SYS$NODE and attempt a post to a topic, you STILL get the right #node name. Oh no, it works for me. You should try getting CMEXEC privs, and changing the logical name in the correct access mode. You'd be amazed how that works much more likely than not. #Dick Munroe Internet: munroe@dmc.com #Doyle Munroe Consultants, Inc. UUCP: ...uunet!thehulk!munroe #267 Cox St. Office: (508) 568-1618 #Hudson, Ma. FAX: (508) 562-1133 # #GET CONNECTED!!! Send mail to info@dmc.com to find out about DMConnection. Not exactly. Most likely you'd get uucp, which is NOT connected. Ehud -- Ehud Gavron (EG76) gavron@aces.com
Re: Callable Notes question.
Author: Dick Munroe
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:08
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:08
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In article <13OCT199203395199@spades.aces.com>, gavron@spades.aces.com (Ehud Gavron 602-570-2000 x. 2546) writes:
>
> Computer software doesn't do "likely" things. It does what it's coded to.
What a remarkable insight that is.
>
> Paul was right, it is gotten from SYS$NODE. Dick is wrong, it is NOT gotten
> from the SCS (not SCCS) node name via GETSYI. It is easy to verify this:
>
> #If you change SYS$NODE and attempt a post to a topic, you STILL get the right
> #node name.
>
> Oh no, it works for me. You should try getting CMEXEC privs, and
> changing the logical name in the correct access mode. You'd be
> amazed how that works much more likely than not.
What in the world makes you think I DIDN'T try this? Your attitude is a best
condescending and at worst deliberately insulting. Hope you don't treat your
clients this way, because you'll poison the well for a lot of other good
consultants.
To produce a counter example for your statement:
HULK::USER1:[..CODE1]$ sho log/full sys$node
"SYS$NODE" [exec,crelog] = "HULK::" [terminal] (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
HULK::USER1:[..CODE1]$ define/system/exec/trans=terminal sys$node foo::
%DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of SYS$NODE has been superseded
HULK::USER1:[..CODE1]$ sho log/full sys$node
"SYS$NODE" [exec] = "FOO::" [terminal] (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
after creating a new note in a local notes file:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note 3.0 test No replies
HULK::MUNROE 2 lines 13-OCT-1992
23:54
this is a test
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that HULK is STILL present in the topic header, clearly indicating that
the translation does NOT come from SYS$NODE.
So, as usual, Ehud shoots his mouth off and gets it wrong. Clearly something
is going on that neither one of us understands completely.
Now I haven't tried actually creating the logical using the SYS$CRELOG system
service, but that's because I haven't got any documentation old enough to
refresh my memory of the interface.
--
Dick Munroe Internet: munroe@dmc.com
Doyle Munroe Consultants, Inc. UUCP: ...uunet!thehulk!munroe
267 Cox St. Office: (508) 568-1618
Hudson, Ma. FAX: (508) 562-1133
GET CONNECTED!!! Send mail to info@dmc.com to find out about DMConnection.
Re: Callable Notes question.
Author: Paul Repacholi
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 16:35
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 16:35
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In article <13OCT199203395199@spades.aces.com>, gavron@spades.aces.com (Ehud Gavron 602-570-2000 x. 2546) writes: > In article <1992Oct12.231359.4635@dmc.com>, munroe@dmc.com (Dick Munroe) > writes... > [About forging a Notes identity] > #>> > #> Well, its just the user name from the process header, plus SYS$NODE... > #> > #> ~Paul > #> > # > #Not exactly. Most likely it's the SCCS node name and retrieved from GETSYI. My apologies, I assumed you would use exec or kernal mode... Keeps it out of the hands of peasants and students... You may also need to define it /job, depending on exact useage ~Paul
Re: Callable Notes question.
Author: Ehud Gavron 602-570-2000 x. 2546
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:58
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:58
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I'm going to steer away from the insulting verbiage, because I believe
Dick truly believes he's right and isn't being any more insulting than
I was:
In article <1992Oct14.000835.4642@dmc.com>, munroe@dmc.com (Dick Munroe)
writes...
#In article <13OCT199203395199@spades.aces.com>, [I wrote:]
#>
#> Paul was right, it is gotten from SYS$NODE... It is easy to verify this:
..
#
#What in the world makes you think I DIDN'T try this?
..
#To produce a counter example for your statement:
#
#HULK::USER1:[..CODE1]$ sho log/full sys$node
# "SYS$NODE" [exec,crelog] = "HULK::" [terminal] (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
#HULK::USER1:[..CODE1]$ define/system/exec/trans=terminal sys$node foo::
#%DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of SYS$NODE has been superseded
#HULK::USER1:[..CODE1]$ sho log/full sys$node
# "SYS$NODE" [exec] = "FOO::" [terminal] (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
#
#after creating a new note in a local notes file:
[Then he shows how the note still reads HULK::user instead of FOO::user]
It probably wasn't a local (on your same node) notes file.
#Note 3.0 test No replies
#HULK::MUNROE 2 lines 13-OCT-1992
# this is a test
#--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#
#Note that HULK is STILL present in the topic header, clearly indicating that
#the translation does NOT come from SYS$NODE.
Watch:
VESTA:[GAVRON]_sho log/full sys$node
"SYS$NODE" [exec,crelog] = "VESTA::" [terminal] (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
VESTA:[GAVRON]_notes/inter=char
Notes> Notes> open sample
Opening conference NOTES$SAMPLE
Note 1.8 Welcome to VAX Notes 8 of 8
VESTA::GAVRON 1 line 14-OCT-1992 10:
48
-< testing >-
VESTA:[GAVRON]_def/sys/exec sys$node "DICK::"
Previous value of SYS$NODE has been superseded
VESTA:[GAVRON]_notes/inter=char
Note 2.2 Choosing an editor to use in VAX Notes 2 of 2
DICK::GAVRON 1 line 14-OCT-1992 10:
49
-< you're wrong dick >-
VESTA:[GAVRON]_sho log sys$Node/full
"SYS$NODE" [exec] = "DICK::" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
Works for me.
#So, as usual, Ehud shoots his mouth off and gets it wrong.
I shoot my mouth off, but I don't get it wrong. That's why
they keep giving me paychecks and atto'boys [10**-18 pats on back]
#Clearly something is going on that neither one of us understands completely.
It makes perfect sense, as shown here.
When accessing a notes file on the SAME NODE, the nodename field
is filled by the translation of SYS$NODE in executive mode. The
terminal attribute is not relevant.
When accessing a notes file on a remote node, the nodename field
is filled by the remote ncp database translation of the DECnet
connection address.
#Now I haven't tried actually creating the logical using the SYS$CRELOG system
#service, but that's because I haven't got any documentation old enough to
#refresh my memory of the interface.
It's not necessary. You had the right logical, but not a local
conference...
#--
#Dick Munroe Internet: munroe@dmc.com
#Doyle Munroe Consultants, Inc. UUCP: ...uunet!thehulk!munroe
#267 Cox St. Office: (508) 568-1618
#Hudson, Ma. FAX: (508) 562-1133
#
#GET CONNECTED!!! Send mail to info@dmc.com to find out about DMConnection.
Ehud
--
Ehud Gavron (EG76)
gavron@vesta.sunquest.com
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