🚀 go-pugleaf

"-" <-@-.-> wrote in message
news:f4s2c31216cp0sp8q0ouf7j7hh2bgt7435@4ax.com...
>
> CSIRO today said that not only the Earth is heating up in the last 30
> years but all the other planets in our solar system.
>
> Apparently its a cycle that we are in and its happened many times
> before in our past.
>
> There does not seem to be any middle ground. The ones pushing that the
> planet is doomed are to far to one side while other others that
> disagree are not that sure either.
>
> I for one do not know what to make of it all.
> I remember when at school 30 years ago that they were saying we might
> enter into an ice age, now they say we may be heating up.
>
> I've seen the Al Gore movie, mainly bulldust. The better one is Crude
> which really explained the science behind it all. There was another
> one from the BBC where on the ABC they had a panel that was against
> and for the documentary. They had a pretty good scientist debunking
> the documentary.
>
> If you are un employed and want some money from the government say
> that you are setting up a study on greenhouse and they'll give you
> buckets of money. No doubt if you are getting paid then the studies
> will lean one way more than another.
>
> I'd like to see more on the heating of the other planets and what the
> planet Mars is doing along with all the moons.
>
> Why would Mars be heating up in the last 30 years ?
> There is no humans on Mars to cause a temp spike like what we are
> seeing here on Earth.
>
> Fot now I'll continue to save power in case the doom stayers are
> right. I reckon we ought to move to Nuclear power while the debate on
> who's right or wrong is going on. Nuclear power has no carbon poising
> unlike everything else.

Not much point focusing on doomsday, it may happen now or in a million years
from now. We all die. I reckon its best to focus on saving fuel so it will
last longer, and try to cut down smog to improve our own life span and that
of all other life. If we do that the rest will follow, eg: more vegetation =
more O2, Less burning of fossil fuels = cleaner air,
less fossil fuel care = cleaner air. We need to take a holistic (everything
has to be in balance) approach to our biggest ecosystem (The world)

Bevan wrote:
> "-" <-@-.-> wrote in message
> news:f4s2c31216cp0sp8q0ouf7j7hh2bgt7435@4ax.com...
>> CSIRO today said that not only the Earth is heating up in the last 30
>> years but all the other planets in our solar system.
>>
>> Apparently its a cycle that we are in and its happened many times
>> before in our past.
>>
>> There does not seem to be any middle ground. The ones pushing that the
>> planet is doomed are to far to one side while other others that
>> disagree are not that sure either.
>>
>> I for one do not know what to make of it all.
>> I remember when at school 30 years ago that they were saying we might
>> enter into an ice age, now they say we may be heating up.
>>
>> I've seen the Al Gore movie, mainly bulldust. The better one is Crude
>> which really explained the science behind it all. There was another
>> one from the BBC where on the ABC they had a panel that was against
>> and for the documentary. They had a pretty good scientist debunking
>> the documentary.
>>
>> If you are un employed and want some money from the government say
>> that you are setting up a study on greenhouse and they'll give you
>> buckets of money. No doubt if you are getting paid then the studies
>> will lean one way more than another.
>>
>> I'd like to see more on the heating of the other planets and what the
>> planet Mars is doing along with all the moons.
>>
>> Why would Mars be heating up in the last 30 years ?
>> There is no humans on Mars to cause a temp spike like what we are
>> seeing here on Earth.
>>
>> Fot now I'll continue to save power in case the doom stayers are
>> right. I reckon we ought to move to Nuclear power while the debate on
>> who's right or wrong is going on. Nuclear power has no carbon poising
>> unlike everything else.
> 
> Not much point focusing on doomsday, it may happen now or in a million years
> from now. We all die. I reckon its best to focus on saving fuel so it will
> last longer, and try to cut down smog to improve our own life span and that
> of all other life. If we do that the rest will follow, eg: more vegetation =
> more O2, Less burning of fossil fuels = cleaner air,
> less fossil fuel care = cleaner air. We need to take a holistic (everything
> has to be in balance) approach to our biggest ecosystem (The world)
> 
> 
That's right.

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:22:39 GMT, "Bevan" <Bevan@bigpond.com> wrote:

>
>"-" <-@-.-> wrote in message
>news:f4s2c31216cp0sp8q0ouf7j7hh2bgt7435@4ax.com...
>>
>> CSIRO today said that not only the Earth is heating up in the last 30
>> years but all the other planets in our solar system.
>>
>> Apparently its a cycle that we are in and its happened many times
>> before in our past.
>>
>> There does not seem to be any middle ground. The ones pushing that the
>> planet is doomed are to far to one side while other others that
>> disagree are not that sure either.
>>
>> I for one do not know what to make of it all.
>> I remember when at school 30 years ago that they were saying we might
>> enter into an ice age, now they say we may be heating up.
>>
>> I've seen the Al Gore movie, mainly bulldust. The better one is Crude
>> which really explained the science behind it all. There was another
>> one from the BBC where on the ABC they had a panel that was against
>> and for the documentary. They had a pretty good scientist debunking
>> the documentary.
>>
>> If you are un employed and want some money from the government say
>> that you are setting up a study on greenhouse and they'll give you
>> buckets of money. No doubt if you are getting paid then the studies
>> will lean one way more than another.
>>
>> I'd like to see more on the heating of the other planets and what the
>> planet Mars is doing along with all the moons.
>>
>> Why would Mars be heating up in the last 30 years ?
>> There is no humans on Mars to cause a temp spike like what we are
>> seeing here on Earth.
>>
>> Fot now I'll continue to save power in case the doom stayers are
>> right. I reckon we ought to move to Nuclear power while the debate on
>> who's right or wrong is going on. Nuclear power has no carbon poising
>> unlike everything else.
>
>Not much point focusing on doomsday, it may happen now or in a million years
>from now. We all die. I reckon its best to focus on saving fuel so it will
>last longer, and try to cut down smog to improve our own life span and that
>of all other life. If we do that the rest will follow, eg: more vegetation =
>more O2, Less burning of fossil fuels = cleaner air,
>less fossil fuel care = cleaner air. We need to take a holistic (everything
>has to be in balance) approach to our biggest ecosystem (The world)

The problem is not everyone is honest. Where there is money to be made
the smog problem will go on for decades. If you were in the coal
industry you'd be doing everything you can to trick the population
into clean coal which is the biggest joke of all. Clean coal only
cleans it up by about 10% if you are lucky. Gas is a better option but
won't happen in my life time because to much money is being generated
by coal.

China to build 500 new coal power stations this year and only 50 new
nuclear reactors. There goes the planet.

The coal industry here won't ever allow nuclear power. They'll fund
the rent a crowd groups to rally against nuclear power. Solar is a
waste of time. Solar power cars and solar power on your roof is far to
expensive at $20,000 and what they don't tell you is that every 5
years you have to pay another $8000 for batteries for the house and
$5000 for your hybrid petrol/electric car which costs about $6000 more
than a petrol car.

Electric cars are worse than petrol because they have to be re charged
at night and if the city is using coal powered stations then they'll
require to burn more coal just to re charge the car. Hybrid cars are
ok but the cost of batteries every 5 years makes it not worth doing.

Those special light bulbs that are energy savers have mercury in them
which is the second most deadly chemical in Australia. Many are
dumping them into the bin which gets into the water table. Surely
governments or councils ought to have a special disposal bin for these
globes so that they can be deposed of properly.

The other problem with mercury light saving globes is what ever you do
don't break one in your house. Do not use the vacuum cleaner as that
will spread the deadly chemical around the rooms. Use a damp/wet cloth
and dispose of that too and hope for the best.

Nano Carbon technology in the years ahead maybe the answer for petrol
cars as this brings the weight of a car down from 2 or 3 tonnes to
only 200kg which saves up to 90% on greenhouse gases.

I'd go Nuclear right now until they master helium-3. Helium 3 is on
the moon which is why they are all trying to get back there. 6 tonnes
of helium 3 is enough to run whe whole of England power for a whole
year and no radiation at all as helium 3 joins isotopes where nuclear
splits atoms which causes radiation.

Thorium is another answer where it burns nuclear waste.
Australia has the biggest reserve of thorium and uranium in the world.
About time we used it. Australia only has one nuclear reactor built
back in 1975 which is used in nuclear medicine which is in every
hospital in Australia.

"-" <-@-.-> wrote in message 
news:f4s2c31216cp0sp8q0ouf7j7hh2bgt7435@4ax.com...
>
> CSIRO today said that not only the Earth is heating up in the last 30
> years but all the other planets in our solar system.

WOW so what.

The question is if humans are contributing to the warming.

Try and keep up

snip 

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:15:58 GMT, - <-@-.-> wrote:


>
>Nano Carbon technology in the years ahead maybe the answer for petrol
>cars as this brings the weight of a car down from 2 or 3 tonnes to
>only 200kg which saves up to 90% on greenhouse gases.

Reference?

-- 
steve.hat.stephencarter.not.com.but.net
Nothing is Beatle Proof!!

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:16:02 GMT, steve@[127.0.0.1] (Stephen  X.
Carter) wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:15:58 GMT, - <-@-.-> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Nano Carbon technology in the years ahead maybe the answer for petrol
>>cars as this brings the weight of a car down from 2 or 3 tonnes to
>>only 200kg which saves up to 90% on greenhouse gases.
>
>Reference?


A 200kg car mmmmm that should be fun to drive across the Mandurah
bypass bridge on a windy day hehehe

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:59:00 +1000, "dechucka"
<dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"-" <-@-.-> wrote in message 
>news:f4s2c31216cp0sp8q0ouf7j7hh2bgt7435@4ax.com...
>>
>> CSIRO today said that not only the Earth is heating up in the last 30
>> years but all the other planets in our solar system.
>
>WOW so what.
>
>The question is if humans are contributing to the warming.
>
>Try and keep up

The sun is heating up all the planets at the same rate as what has
happened here on Earth in the past 20 to 30 years.

Looks like now that Al Gore has been duped along with everyone else.
Scientists that were saying that humans were responceable are now
saying they may have got it completely wrong.

I've wasted the last 10 years of my life demonstating about cleaning
up due to gobal warming thinking it was due to greenhouse gases.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:16:02 GMT, steve@[127.0.0.1] (Stephen  X.
Carter) wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:15:58 GMT, - <-@-.-> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Nano Carbon technology in the years ahead maybe the answer for petrol
>>cars as this brings the weight of a car down from 2 or 3 tonnes to
>>only 200kg which saves up to 90% on greenhouse gases.
>
>Reference?

ABC.net.au
Catalyst last Thursday night program. You might even be able to
download the show. Its the last 10 mins.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:16:02 GMT, steve@[127.0.0.1] (Stephen  X.
Carter) wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:15:58 GMT, - <-@-.-> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Nano Carbon technology in the years ahead maybe the answer for petrol
>>cars as this brings the weight of a car down from 2 or 3 tonnes to
>>only 200kg which saves up to 90% on greenhouse gases.
>
>Reference?

Found the direct link.
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/

Dr. Andrew Harris - 2007 Eureka People�s Choice nominee - August 9

Chemical Engineer Dr Andrew Harris has been nominated for a Eureka
People�s Choice Prize for his work on carbon nanotubes � a lightweight
material ten times stronger than steel which can not only be used to
make bullet proof cloth, but could one day cut carbon emissions from
cars by up to 90 per cent.

Transcript.
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s2000036.htm

Dr Andrew Harris: I did chemistry at school and then I did chemistry
at university and I am actually a terrible chemist. And then I
discovered this thing called chemical engineering, which is chemistry
on a big scale. 

I spend a lot of time on my bike thinking. It�s a lovely ride from the
beach to the university . 

I work with a fantastic bunch of people. No academic ever works alone.

We�re trying to change the way that people live and change the impact
they have on the planet. The work that my group is doing is to try and
find a way to make lots and lots of carbon nanotubes.

Narration: Carbon nanotubes are made from an element found all around
us � as charcoal, graphite in pencils and in its crystalline form,
diamonds. Gram for gram, carbon nanotubes are worth almost as much.

Associate Professor Geoff Barton: Carbon nanotubes have been around
for quite some time. The challenge for people like Andrew is to take
those things through to the level where they can be made commercially
viable and I think that�s what he is doing and that is why his science
is so good.

Dr Andrew Harris: Carbon nanotubes are just the most fantastic thing
I�ve ever come across in science. If you imagine a sheet of chicken
wire and you roll it up in the shape of a test tube and then you
shrink it down so that it�s 10,000 times smaller than the hair on your
head and you make it out of carbon, that�s a carbon nanotube. Very
good quality ones can be as much as two thousand US dollars a gram.

Carbon nanotubes are the strongest material that mankind has ever come
across - ten times stronger than steel.The US army have come up with a
bullet proof cloth that has nanotubes woven into it that will stop a
bullet from not very far away.

There�s a really, really interesting example form NASA. They want to
replace the space shuttle program. They�ll have a satellite in space
tethered to the Earth and the rope will be made of carbon nanotubes
because that is the only material we have that�s strong enough and
flexible enough

Now if you make your new cars out of carbon nanotube reinforced
plastic which you can do, instead of a car weighing two tonnes it will
only weigh a couple of hundred kilograms so you reduce the amount of
emissions by 90 per cent.

So those are the sort of technologies we are trying to bring about.
That�s why I get up out of bed in the morning.

I love thinking about what the future could hold and what you need to
do to get there.

Story Contacts

Associate Professor Geoff Barton 
Head of Department of Chemical Engineering
The University of Sydney

Dr Andrew Harris 
Chemical Engineer
University of Sydney
Laboratory for Sustainable Technology

Related Info

Dr Andrew Harris profile

Laboratory for Sustainable Energy, University of Sydney
http://www.chem.eng.usyd.edu.au/sustech/research.shtml

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:47:24 +0800, Not No-one <notnoone@noone.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:16:02 GMT, steve@[127.0.0.1] (Stephen  X.
>Carter) wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:15:58 GMT, - <-@-.-> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Nano Carbon technology in the years ahead maybe the answer for petrol
>>>cars as this brings the weight of a car down from 2 or 3 tonnes to
>>>only 200kg which saves up to 90% on greenhouse gases.
>>
>>Reference?
>
>
>A 200kg car mmmmm that should be fun to drive across the Mandurah
>bypass bridge on a windy day hehehe

You don't see kids on their bikes getting blown across the road going
across the Mandurah bypass bridge even on the days when its quite
gusty.

You are more likely to be killed in the heavier 4wd vehicals than any
other vehical on the road today.

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:22:39 GMT, "Bevan" <Bevan@bigpond.com> wrote:

>
>"-" <-@-.-> wrote in message
>news:f4s2c31216cp0sp8q0ouf7j7hh2bgt7435@4ax.com...
>>
>> CSIRO today said that not only the Earth is heating up in the last 30
>> years but all the other planets in our solar system.
>>
>> Apparently its a cycle that we are in and its happened many times
>> before in our past.
>>
>> There does not seem to be any middle ground. The ones pushing that the
>> planet is doomed are to far to one side while other others that
>> disagree are not that sure either.
>>
>> I for one do not know what to make of it all.
>> I remember when at school 30 years ago that they were saying we might
>> enter into an ice age, now they say we may be heating up.
>>
>> I've seen the Al Gore movie, mainly bulldust. The better one is Crude
>> which really explained the science behind it all. There was another
>> one from the BBC where on the ABC they had a panel that was against
>> and for the documentary. They had a pretty good scientist debunking
>> the documentary.
>>
>> If you are un employed and want some money from the government say
>> that you are setting up a study on greenhouse and they'll give you
>> buckets of money. No doubt if you are getting paid then the studies
>> will lean one way more than another.
>>
>> I'd like to see more on the heating of the other planets and what the
>> planet Mars is doing along with all the moons.
>>
>> Why would Mars be heating up in the last 30 years ?
>> There is no humans on Mars to cause a temp spike like what we are
>> seeing here on Earth.
>>
>> Fot now I'll continue to save power in case the doom stayers are
>> right. I reckon we ought to move to Nuclear power while the debate on
>> who's right or wrong is going on. Nuclear power has no carbon poising
>> unlike everything else.
>
>Not much point focusing on doomsday, it may happen now or in a million years
>from now. We all die. I reckon its best to focus on saving fuel so it will
>last longer, and try to cut down smog to improve our own life span and that
>of all other life. If we do that the rest will follow, eg: more vegetation =
>more O2, Less burning of fossil fuels = cleaner air,
>less fossil fuel care = cleaner air. We need to take a holistic (everything
>has to be in balance) approach to our biggest ecosystem (The world)
>

Mars heating up like earth - 06/04/2007

NASA scientists have revealed that Mars is also experiencing global
warming. One Australian climate change sceptic has seized on the study
as a challenge to the assumption that climate change is caused by
humans. 

http://www.abc.net.au/ra/connectasia/stories/s1891603.htm

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:49:47 GMT, - <-@-.-> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:16:02 GMT, steve@[127.0.0.1] (Stephen  X.
>Carter) wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:15:58 GMT, - <-@-.-> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Nano Carbon technology in the years ahead maybe the answer for petrol
>>>cars as this brings the weight of a car down from 2 or 3 tonnes to
>>>only 200kg which saves up to 90% on greenhouse gases.
>>
>>Reference?
>
>ABC.net.au
>Catalyst last Thursday night program. You might even be able to
>download the show. Its the last 10 mins.

Thanks. 

I think that  "a couple of hundred kgs" is a trifle optimistic - perhaps
300 or 400 at best.

Oddly... I used to work in the same building as the bloke who got the
Nobel Prize for C60, and shook his hand the day he got it.  :-)  

-- 
steve.hat.stephencarter.not.com.but.net
Nothing is Beatle Proof!!

steve@[127.0.0.1] (Stephen  X. Carter) wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:49:47 GMT, - <-@-.-> wrote:
>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:16:02 GMT, steve@[127.0.0.1] (Stephen  X.
>>Carter) wrote:
>>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:15:58 GMT, - <-@-.-> wrote:

>>>>Nano Carbon technology in the years ahead maybe the answer for petrol
>>>>cars as this brings the weight of a car down from 2 or 3 tonnes to
>>>>only 200kg which saves up to 90% on greenhouse gases.

>>>Reference?

>>ABC.net.au
>>Catalyst last Thursday night program. You might even be able to
>>download the show. Its the last 10 mins.

>Thanks. 

>I think that  "a couple of hundred kgs" is a trifle optimistic - perhaps
>300 or 400 at best.

Even 400kg is optimistic. The "ten times stronger than steel"
doesn't work for the whole car which carries a lot of glass,
plastics, copper, aluminium, magnesium and just a little steel.

The steel shell of a large car body probably weighs in at less than
400kg.  If the carbon could be distributed as well to protect the
occupants and to support the other elements would allow the 400kg to
be reduced down to 40kg. Which is only a 360kg saving reducing the
"2 tonnes" down to 1.6; but not likely anyway.

A medium-sized car weighs in at about 1400kg anyway.

The engine, if made from cast iron, uses that material for its
structural stiffness and thermodynamic properties. An alloy block
already weighs in at about a third of an iron one.

I'm not aware of any successful implementation of gears using carbon
technology so at least the gearbox guts and the differential will
have to be made from steel (typically alloys much stronger than
ordinary steel) in the foreseeable future. Transmission housings
also tend to be alloy or even partly plastic/composite nowadays.
So not much mass to lose there.

Suspension and brake components are next worth considering. And are
already being implemented. But carbon technology is only saving
small increments with trespect to the whole vehicle mass.

Cars are as heavy as they are for two main reasons:
1) customer equipment choices/preferences
2) legislated occupant protection

The aforementioned medium-sized car's kerb mass of 1400kg could be
1000kg if non-essential trim and equipment were deleted across the
range. People who specialise in building "specials" for motorsport
can start a current Golf shape, reinforced with a race cage at under
1000kg.

Car buyers make choices of equipment, usually in ignorance of the
effect on fuel economy. A simple rule of thumb is that every 100kg
of moving car consumes 0.2 litres/100km. That's the order of
magnitude.
-- 
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | The object of life is not to be on the side of 
 X   against HTML mail     | the majority but to escape finding oneself in
/ \  and postings          | the ranks of the insane.  -- Marcus Aurelius