🚀 go-pugleaf

Glen Hallick wrote:

>>>American hating leftists?
>>
>>Yes that's what I said.

> Are they any American hating rightists?

There probably are but hating Americans is not a prerequisite to belong 
to the more conservative faction of our society as it apparently is on 
the left.

>>  I for one have NOT said anything that is hateful

>>>of the US. I have indeed criticized its government's foreign policy
>>>particularly when it comes to overthrowing DEMOCRATICALLY elected
>>>governments (ie: Arbenz in Guatemala and Allende in Chile) among other
>>>things.

>>....and, I might add, tried to use such things to support your
>>disagreement with the disarming of a dictatorial despot who is in
>>violation of a multitude of UN resolutions.  Maybe you thought Saddam
>>was democratically elected?

> Twisting words again Carter? I have made it very clear that I do not disgree
> with disarming the Iraqi military of its WDM's.

Then you would agree with disarmament by force if Iraq refuses to do it 
voluntarily?

>>  Furthermore I have indeed been very critical of the Bush

>>>Administration's drive to launch a war of aggression against Iraq.

>>I would be also if it was a war of aggression that he is proposing, it
>>is not and only an American hating leftist could consider it such.

> What threat does Iraq pose to the US?

It is a destabilizing influence on the Middle East, a very economically 
important part of the world.  Because we don't live in a vacuum it is 
therefore a threat to most of the world.

  It's military is still a shadow of its
> former self after getting the shit kicked out of it by the US and its
> coalition.

The you don't need to worry, the 'war' will not be long and very few, if 
any, innocent civilians will be killed.


>>  To me
>>>there is a lot of similarity between Iraq's invasion of Kuwait back in
> 1990
>>>and the war Bush et al are pushing for today.

>>Maybe to you but not to the rest of the population, unless there is
>>someone out there who believes Kuwait was thumbing it's nose at UN
>>resolutions and had to be disarmed.

> Kuwait and Iraq were in a dispute over oil drilling. Iraq charged that
> Kuwait was taking oil from Iraqi territory.

Yes we know that.  How does that show a similarity 'between Iraq's 
invasion of Kuwait back in 1990 and the war Bush et al are pushing for 
today.'

>>>The problem with some of the pro-war crowd is they are fanatics when in
>>>comes to political correctness. Anyone dare's to say anything blatantly
>>
> or
> 
>>>remotely negative about US policy and sure as hell there are people like
>>
> you
> 
>>>extremely eager to label that person as being anti-American.
>>
>>I wouldn't know about that, not being part of the pro-war crowd.

> BBBWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! You're quite the comedian Carter.

Another of your cogent remarks I take it?


>>The
>>problem is that to you leftists anybody who refuses to be bullied by
>>regimes such as that led by Saddam Hussein is pro-war.

> More of your bullshit covered spin.

Out of reasoned argument are we?


>>I can assure you I am not pro-war, at least not by your definition, but
>>I do accept the reality that Saddam Hussein will not voluntarily comply
>>with UN resolutions and therefore must be forced to do so.

> If you are not pro-war then in last few weeks you have changed your mind.

Not at all, if anything I am even more convinced that Iraq has to be 
disarmed.  If that eventually requires force I support it.

> You and I have tangled over this issue from quite some time, it is quite
> clear you are very much in favour of a war.

You obviously have not been paying attention to what I have been saying.


>>If you believe that then you know nothing, and throughout our usenet
>>conversations, have learned nothing about me but, go ahead, believe what
>>you will.

> I have learned you're a hard-core right-winger with a deep seeded hatred to
> anything that is or perceived to be left-wing.

See, I told you, you have learned nothing about me.  I guess '..deep 
seeded hatred..' is more left wing rhetoric?

  You have on occassion made
> claims of having been employed in the intelligence field.

Not claims, statements of fact.

  You have also made
> claims of defending democracy, yet given your vemonous streak towards the
> left I sometime wonder what you were defending.

Democracy, what else.  What's this '..venomous streak..' more left wing 
rhetoric?

> Seems to me turning a blind eye to from who Iraq acquired its WDM's is
> allowing a guilty party to get off.

What guilty party?  If the US, or any other country, sold arms to Iraq 
prior to UN resolution 661 what exactly would it be guilty of?


>>Yes, but have they come out with any relatively sure way of disarming
>>Iraq while Saddam is in charge?  No!

> Allow me to apply that question to you. Other than war, you haven't
> mentioned anyother means.

That is because I am realistic enough to realize there is no other way. 
  It is abundantly apparent after some 12 years that Iraq has no 
intention of being persuaded by any peaceful means to disarm.

Now what is your solution?

>>>When you shove your anti-left blathering up your arse...sideways...then
>>>perhaps you and I can make a little progress discussing this issue.
>>
>>Not until you shove your pro-war and 'drooling for war' bullshit up your
>>arse.

> From what I have seen on the Usenet, you are definately a leading propenent
> for war. Yet now you seem to be backing down.

I am neither a leading proponent of war nor am I backing down from 
anything.  I am a leading proponent of the position that when assholes 
like Hussein will not be persuaded peacefully they must be persuaded in 
the way they understand best, by force.

The difference between you and me is that you are not willing to 
recognize that in some cases force is necessary.  This is one of those 
cases, whether you recognize it or not.

Carter