🚀 go-pugleaf

Stevejs,

What exactly isn't happening? Using the File > Import > File for
another FM file gives you two choices. Import by Reference, which
creates a text inset OR import by Copy, which inserts all of the
contents *in a specific flow* into your FM document. Further, you are
given a choice of using either the current documents formatting or to
retain the formatting from the imported document.

The key point is that FM only imports a single flow at a time from
another FM document. So, if you have multiple flows on the same
physical page, you won't get an exact physical match to the page that
you're importing. If you need page fidelity, then treat the imported
document as a graphic, i.e. create a PDF and import that.

Thanks, Arnis.

N o t h i n g happens with "Import by Copy," which is all I want, not even sure what "Import by Reference" means.

I have tried both current document's formatting and retaining imported document's formatting. Again, nothing happens a t a l l.

I'm not sure what you mean by "flow" or "a single flow at a time," but I should think s o m e t h i n g should get imported no matter what the "flow" situation.

I need in the end a fully editable .fm document incorporating the imported document.

Stevenjs
_____________________________
"I am but an egg."

Steven,

Let's start at the beginning. Which version of FM, including point
release, are your using (use the Help > About FrameMaker... screen for
the details - look for Version No.)?

The "Import by Reference" option creates a link to the external
document and only pulls in a non-editable representation of the
contents. In your case, for it to be editable, you will need to select
the "Copy Into Document" option.

After the first window, when you've clicked on the Import button, you
should get another window that is titled either "Import Text Flow by
Copy" or "Import Text Flow by Reference", depending upon your previous
choice. The contents and options in these two windows is identical
except for the title bar.

The first option grouping is for the Text flow. A Flow in FM is where
your content resides. Typically you will want to import the "Body Page
Flow" material (indicated by the radio button control) and you can
select which of the user defined flows from the drop down list to the
right. Usually it's just flow "A". You probably can safely ignore the
flows on the Reference pages (second radio button choice here).

The next option grouping lets FM know how you want it to handle the
imported material. Your choices are:

 - to reformat the material according to the tags that you have in the
current document (and optionally remove any overrides in the incoming
file)

 - to simply pull it in as plain text and it will take on the
formatting of the current paragraph that you're importing the content
into, i.e. all imported material will be tagged with this same paratag

 - to keep (retain) the formatting that exists in the incoming file.
Any paratags with the same names will then be flagged as having
overrides. Any tags (paragraph, character or table) not defined in the
current document will be used, but not added to the respective
Catalog.

When you then hit the "Import" button (at the bottom left), the
content should come in, as FM has already "vetted" the selected file
during the first screen. You would *not* have even had the second
"Import Text Flow..." window presented if it wasn't a valid FM file.

I am assuming that you are importing into a Body page of the current
document and that you have an insertion point selected on the Body
page. Do you see any change in the page count at the bottom in your
status line? Silly question, but you know that the content in the
other FM file is really there?

Version 8.0p277

I've been around this bush a dozen times. N O N E of the options import the document.

Of course the content in other doc is "there," plain as day.

No, nein, nyet, to change in page count.

Stevenjs
_____________________________
--Stranger in a Strange Land

Oddly enough, I tried to import another .fm doc (which I do not need to import) and it worked.

I tried saving the one I do want to import out under a new name, still will not import. I am not aware of any difference between the unrelated .fm doc that does import and the one that does not import, which I need to get in.

Stevenjs
_____________________________
--Stranger in a Strange Land

Steven,
When you're working in the fm file that you want to import... can you add and delete copy normally? Or does that seem to be shut off?

And... you know, I assume, that you can just cut and paste from one file to another. Is that not working either?

Art

Art, as mentioned intially, copy & paste brings in text only, no images. And yes, I can copy & paste within trouble .fm doc normally.

Arnis,

When I open .fm doc that won't import, I get no FM menu options. It simply opens, like any other .fm doc. I have saved it out as .mif, opened that, and saved back under a new name as .fm doc. Still will not import.

Stevenjs
_____________________________
--Stranger in a Strange Land

Steven,

Both Arnis and I were exploring the idea that your problem file was locked, which would restrict its usage and what you can do with it. It, apparently, is not, based on your description. Did you try Arnis's keystroke sequence to confirm?

And... in the problem file, have you confirmed that there aren't another layer of imported-by-reference files?

Art

No, did not try. A bit hard to follow, and odd, since I would have to have "locked" it, no? Certainly did no such thing.

As for "another layer of imported-by-reference files?" ditto above. Nothing has been imported into document I am trying to import, nor any attempt made to do so. The document I am trying to import into, which has no problem importing another .fm doc (other than one I need), I just have no idea whether there might be a "another layer of imported-by-reference files" or how I might discover that. There is nothing to see, no change in page count, etc.

Dunno if this has anything to do with it, but got the following set of messages when trying the .mif suggestion:

"MIF: "C:\Documents and Settings\ssilva\My Documents\Steven Silva\Acudeo\dynamicAdRotator\DynamicAdRotator_miniGuide_draft1.0.4.mif" (908): Value of Separation out of range (10).
MIF: "C:\Documents and Settings\ssilva\My Documents\Steven Silva\Acudeo\dynamicAdRotator\DynamicAdRotator_miniGuide_draft1.0.4.mif" (996): Value of Separation out of range (10).
MIF: "C:\Documents and Settings\ssilva\My Documents\Steven Silva\Acudeo\dynamicAdRotator\DynamicAdRotator_miniGuide_draft1.0.4.mif" (3602): Value of Separation out of range (10).
MIF: "C:\Documents and Settings\ssilva\My Documents\Steven Silva\Acudeo\dynamicAdRotator\DynamicAdRotator_miniGuide_draft1.0.4.mif" (3917): Value of Separation out of range (14).
MIF: "C:\Documents and Settings\ssilva\My Documents\Steven Silva\Acudeo\dynamicAdRotator\DynamicAdRotator_miniGuide_draft1.0.4.mif" (3979): Value of RulingSeparation out of range (10).
MIF: "C:\Documents and Settings\ssilva\My Documents\Steven Silva\Acudeo\dynamicAdRotator\DynamicAdRotator_miniGuide_draft1.0.4.mif" (4560): Value of TblBodySeparation out of range (10).
MIF: "C:\Documents and Settings\ssilva\My Documents\Steven Silva\Acudeo\dynamicAdRotator\DynamicAdRotator_miniGuide_draft1.0.4.mif" (4617): Value of TblHFSeparation out of range (11).
MIF: "C:\Documents and Settings\ssilva\My Documents\Steven Silva\Acudeo\dynamicAdRotator\DynamicAdRotator_miniGuide_draft1.0.4.mif" (4620): Value of TblBodySeparation out of range (11).
MIF: "C:\Documents and Settings\ssilva\My Documents\Steven Silva\Acudeo\dynamicAdRotator\DynamicAdRotator_miniGuide_draft1.0.4.mif" (4626): Value of TblXSeparation out of range (11)."

Stevenjs
_____________________________
--Stranger in a Strange Land

Steven, fwiw, it's very easy to lock a document in error through an inadvertent fumble-finger of keyboard clicks.

Steven,

When you open the document that won't import, does it show you the
full range of FM menu options or just an abbreviated set? If you don't
see a full set of options, then you may have a "locked" document. I
can't remember of the top of my head if this messes with the import.

Anyway, to unlock a document enter: <esc> F (uppercase) l (lowercase
L) and k (lowercase) at anytime when that document has focus.

If this doesn't do it for import, try to save the document as MIF,
open the MIF file and then re-save it as a .fm file with a different
name. Then try importing this newly saved version. 

Steven,

The error messages in the MIF file are telling you that there is some
corruption in the document.

When you open this document, and you say that you can't copy the
graphics for pasting. How where the graphics placed in there in the
first place? Are they in anchored frames as part of the flow, in some
other container or part of the page background?

Arnis,

The files originally get placed, like it or not, inside an anchored box. In this particular doc, all images have been removed from the box, the box deleted, and the image then positioned amidst returns or shift-returns without any kind of box.

I know this is 'gauche,' but I'm still getting used to these anchored boxes, which are severely limited in movement/positioning, though at least they stay put with related text.

I don't know what you mean by 'background,' though there is one logo image in the master footer section.

Happily the stress is off, as I've manually copied the text, then each image individually into the new .fm doc. However, I am eager to know what the problem is so it can be avoided in the future, and I cannot leave the problem .fm doc in a 'corrupted' state.

Stevenjs
_____________________________
"I am but an egg."
--Stranger in a Strange Land

Without having the file to analyze, it sounds as if you may have corrupted the file with whatever method you used to bring in the graphics, instead of using the program tools the way they were designed... which is where you started.

While I understand your frustration with the learning curve, you're likely to progress further, faster, if you figure out how the program (the anchored frames, for example) work than if you try to figure out work-arounds that may break things. Just in passing, the frames and associated graphics aren't really very limiting as far as movement or positioning go... once you've figured out how they work.

Art

Art, I have figured out how the anchored frames work, and despite what you say, they do leave a great deal to be desired in terms of positioning.

Assuming the document is somehow corrupted, which remains an open question, blaming it on taking images out of their frames seems facile if not silly. How would one know if this is true? Put them back in anchored frames? Recreate the entire document from scratch?

As a newbie to this app, with deep experience in Quark and InDesign, I have high expectations, which are continually defeated in FM, no offense to the devotees in this forum. I am a usability designer, and I call usability failures by their name wherever I find them.

Stevenjs
_____________________________
--Stranger in a Strange Land

PS. The 'out-of-frame' images are in all of the .fm docs, including the ones which I can import without any problem.

Ah, nix that PS. Oddly enough, the ones that import happen NOT to have any boxes other than anchored.

And from experimenting, NO boxes import OTHER than anchored boxes. Strange indeed. The only boxes that are flexible enough for me are the graphic boxes, and docs with these do not import, nor do they seem to copy/paste either. Very weird.

Apparently this is not widely known?

--Stranger in a Strange Land

Steven,

Remember what I said about FM importing only *flows* from other FM
documents. An anchored frame is part of the flow, as it is "anchored"
in one of the paragraphs of the flow. If you pull the graphic outside
of the anchored frame, you have also effectively yanked the graphic
from the flow itself. It now resides on a specific page only. A page
can contain multiple flows and not all pages have to have the same
flows. If you want to import something into another FM document, it
must be part of a flow.

As Art said, you need to learn to use the tools as they are designed
to be used. FM is not Quark or InDesign and does not use the same
layout metaphors as those applications. You really need to try to
forget about how those programs work and not try to make FM work like
them - it is different. It's like trying to apply the knowledge and
principles of sailing to driving a car in an urban environment -
you're going to be disappointed and in for some surprises...

Arnis,

Thanks. I'd love to know how one goes about establishing multiple 'flows' on the same page. But I don't think that were an answer to the problem. One might have an image 'flow' and a text flow, and import them separately, but can one have a graphic box, or a text box, or anything but an anchored frame, in a flow? How? And how would you know it were short of trying to import it and failing?

In effect, you either have to know you will need to import it, and set it up accordingly, or set it up specifically for import after the fact. What a hassle. Sorry. FM is preferable to Word, and that is the choice I have here, but this is an app only its mother could love.

I'd appreciate more specific how to and less generality, if you're kind enough to respond. Thanks.

Stevenjs
_____________________________
"I am but an egg."
--Stranger in a Strange Land

Steven,

I do not think Arnis is suggesting that you need multiple flow in your document to solve your problem. I think he is suggesting that the document you want to IMPORT may have multiple flows, in which case only one flow will get imported; I do not know which one.

Also, he is saying that IF the graphics in the document to be imported are not part of that document's flow, for example they are on a master page or outside the text flow on a particular page, they will not be imported. He is suggesting that something is unusual about the imported document.

Typically, one has one text flow in a document. When you import a graphic into the document, the graphic is imported (say by reference) at the insertion point, which is typically in the text flow. Hence, in the normal case, all graphics are inside the flow. When that document is imported into another document, the whole flow is imported, including any graphics that are part of the flow, that is "attached" to paragraphs in the flow.

Does this clear things up?

Try opening the document to be imported and place the insertion point within some text that you want to import. Then press Crtl+A to select all. If the graphics are NOT selected, then they are NOT in the flow. If they are selected, then they are part of the flow.

Good luck,
Van

Steven,

As Van says, I wasn't advocating setting up multiple flows, I was
saying don't mess with the tools/objects in your existing flow (unless
you know what you're doing and why). What you did by yanking the
graphics out of the anchored frames messed things up for you. Learn
how to use the tools properly.

Guys, guys, guys,

this could have been answered ab initio with my one sentence:

NO boxes import (or copy/paste) OTHER than anchored boxes.

If you opt to use any other kind of container/frame for graphics -- like umm, a graphics box, or opt for no box at all, you're crap out of luck as far as importing or copy/paste goes.

I repeat, this is Strange Indeed, and I would have to call it a usability failure and an interface failure. It is totally bizarre to have containers available that can only be used with that One Big Caveat.

Apparently FM gurus don't use anything but anchored boxes, so they don't know how to answer this question, except to say "use only anchored boxes like I do' yadayadayada.

--Stranger in a Strange Land