🚀 go-pugleaf

>Any one else out there notice that since December 1st Microsoft does not offer
>free support anymore for their BASIC products (at least PDS).  Now you have to
>call either a 900 number, 800 number with credit card, CI$, or Genie.
 
I heard of Novell doing much of the same thing with their Network products, but
but so far excellent support for their DRDOS 6.0.
 
I have been courted recently by Spectra Publishing for their PowerBasic 3.0
which is to begin shipping at the first of the year.  Since Microsoft tells
me the upgrade path from PDS is Visual Basic, I have also been looking for
a path to take - either another Basic Compiler, a C compiler (know ZERO C) or
pursuing both.  I am tired of having carrots dangled in front of me and then
finding the carrot being moved so I don't plan on getting Visual Basic even
though it is reported to be a good product - I am gaining a bigger distaste
for Microsoft as each day goes by with their compiler and operating systems
tactics. (You might have guessed since I purchased DRDOS 6.0)
 
I have taken Spectra Publishing up on their upgrade offer and they were kind
enough to give me a competetive upgrade from PDS 7.1.  I do not have any
experience with the company, but their advertising keeps beating the drum
about support for their product.  (Note:  PcSig, Shareware Magazine, and
Spectra Publising are either one and the same, or owned by the same holding
corporation).
 
If you think you might be interested in learning more about them, you might
want to give them a ring at 1-800-245-6717 (ext 4114 per letter, but the
person who answered my call helped me).  I have turned on the Quik_basic
echo in Fidonet in hopes of learning more about the company between now and
the arrival of the package.  Oh, BTW, they do promise a 30 day money back
guarantee if not satisfied - price $149, upgrade for $59 from TurboBasic 1.0+,
PowerBasic 2.0+ (and in my case I went from PDS 7.1 for the upgrade price).
 
Eddie

In article <1gor8rINN63l@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> villalj@xanth.CS.ORST.EDU (John Villalovos) writes:
>I asked them if they supported the Internet and they said no.

I can assure you that charging for Basic language support is not done because
we own the market.  That's simply not true.  It is my understanding that all
too often, people find it easier to pick up the phone and call a free 
support number to ask a question that they could have answered for themselves
if they had read the documentation.  Since we go to a lot of trouble
to create accurate documentation, we don't think it's unreasonable to expect
people to read it when they have a problem. In fact, we'd like them to
read it before they have a problem but that rarely happens.

After a while support costs begin to get all out of proportion with what
you're making on the product. Now I don't suppose to know all of the ins and
outs of these things, but that's the gist of what I've heard about it.

As for the Internet support, we don't have any official support people dedi-
cated to support on the Internet, but we do have a number of people who
regularly read this newsgroup.  And those people regularly posts responses
to people who have posed problems or asked questions.  I suspect that
unless there's a compelling reason not to continue this practice, we will.
Contrary to popular belief, we don't go around trying to think up ways to
aggravate people.  We want happy customers who use our products to do
useful things.  I am a longtime Basic user and I just happen to work in
the group that develops Microsoft Basic products (including BC7.0, BC7.1, 
Visual Basic for Windows, and Visual Basic for MS-DOS.) If I can get an
answer to any question you have you may be assured that I will.


-- 
Frederick F. Freeland Jr.                        "Of all the things I've lost,  Microsoft Corporation                               I miss my mind the most!"   One Microsoft Way  
Redmond, WA 98052 (206) 882-8080                                                                                                                                internet: fredf@microsoft.com                                                   arpanet:  fredf%microsoft@uw-beaver.ARPA
uucp:     uunet!microsoft!fredf                                                                                                                                 Opinions expressed over this signature are my OWN and not those of my employer! 

In article <1gor8rINN63l@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> villalj@xanth.CS.ORST.EDU (John Villalovos) writes:
>Any one else out there notice that since December 1st Microsoft does not offer
>free support anymore for their BASIC products (at least PDS).  Now you have to
>call either a 900 number, 800 number with credit card, CI$, or Genie.
>

That's not true.  Free support is still provided for setup/install problems,
usage questions, product inquiries and the like.  The only thing that is
charged for now is programming consulting services... i.e. how-to programming
issues.

>They don't seem to do this with programs like Excel.
>

We don't do that for any application product, only programming languages.

Phil Cooper

In article <1992Dec17.223122.12857@microsoft.com> fredf@microsoft.com
(Fred Freeland) writes:

>Visual Basic for Windows, and Visual Basic for MS-DOS.) If I can get an
                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>answer to any question you have you may be assured that I will.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

   Well, since you offer, I just acquired FutureBasic for the Mac at a
very nice low-cost introductory price, and have the box sitting on the
shelf above my terminal.

   So, should I open the box, trash my Mac QuickBASIC stuff, and start
learning FutureBasic?  Why not?

In article <1gor8rINN63l@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> villalj@xanth.CS.ORST.EDU (John Villalovos) writes:
>Any one else out there notice that since December 1st Microsoft does not offer
>free support anymore for their BASIC products (at least PDS).  Now you have to
>call either a 900 number, 800 number with credit card, CI$, or Genie.
>
>They don't seem to do this with programs like Excel.
>
> [stuff deleted]
>
Well....I work for HP and I've got a number of systems which are now using
QuickBASIC for the production software.  It's version 4.5.  MS is REALLY
backing off from support of BASIC.  We considered going to PDS v7.x, but
found out the new compiler object modules won't link with some of our
earlier object modules (variety of stuff: MS C v5.0, MS C v5.1, QB v4.5 etc).
Rather than buy the latest BASIC from MS, and then rewrite/recompile the
earlier stuff, we are just switching to MS C/C++ v7.0, i.e. since BASIC
doesn't seem to be charted as a long-term supported language (at least at
MS), we decided to switch to a language that IS.  Of course, that means
we will finally be forced to rewrite that ol' HP BASIC stuff that we've
been getting by with.....   (YUK...LINE NUMBERS!)

:*)

Brian

In article <1992Dec18.162416.14689@microsoft.com> philco@microsoft.com (Phillip Cooper) writes:
>In article <1gor8rINN63l@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> villalj@xanth.CS.ORST.EDU (John Villalovos) writes:
>>Any one else out there notice that since December 1st Microsoft does not offer
>>free support anymore for their BASIC products (at least PDS).  Now you have to
>>call either a 900 number, 800 number with credit card, CI$, or Genie.
>>
>
>That's not true.  Free support is still provided for setup/install problems,
>usage questions, product inquiries and the like.  The only thing that is
>charged for now is programming consulting services... i.e. how-to programming
>issues.
>

After doing some checking, I find that the statement I made above is not
entirely correct.  Free support is now provided only for setup questions and
product inquiries.  All other issues are covered on the Developer support
line (ie 900#), CIS, or GEnie.

>>They don't seem to do this with programs like Excel.
>>
>
>We don't do that for any application product, only programming languages.
>
>Phil Cooper