🚀 go-pugleaf

on Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:19
in the Usenet newsgroup aus.computers.linux
BrianM wrote:

> Mandriva O/S with KDE. 
> 
> I have KPPP set up (and working fine) for a dialup system into Bigpond. 
> My modem is an older data/fax/voice 56000bps model. Ok it's slow but 
> it works and it's cheap. I've used a double adaptor to split the line
> at the phone jack. 
> However, when I take the tower to a friend's place half a kay away and
> plug the modem into their phone jack, it can't find a dial tone. 
> When I go to KPPP configure and run the Query modem ATI, it comes back
> blank, and also wipes out most of the settings in Modem commands as well. 
> I've changed modem cables checked all the connections but still can't get
> the modem to dial - weird !. The problem appears to be located at the line
> but I don't know how to unravel it. 
> 
> any thoughts please?

Can't find the dial tone?  Have you tried that with a telephone handset?  

If your friend has naked ADSL, there won't be a dial tone and you can 
not use a dial up modem.  

Were any lights on or flashing on the modem?  
Which? 
Was the power turned on? 
What did kppp report that was different from what it does at home?
Did you try unplugging the phone?  Not using the double adapter?  

-- 
Peter D.  
Sig goes here...  

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 17:39:54 +1000, Peter D. wrote:

> on Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:19
> in the Usenet newsgroup aus.computers.linux BrianM wrote:
> 
>> Mandriva O/S with KDE.
>> 
>> I have KPPP set up (and working fine) for a dialup system into Bigpond.
>> My modem is an older data/fax/voice 56000bps model. Ok it's slow but it
>> works and it's cheap. I've used a double adaptor to split the line at
>> the phone jack.
>> However, when I take the tower to a friend's place half a kay away and
>> plug the modem into their phone jack, it can't find a dial tone. When I
>> go to KPPP configure and run the Query modem ATI, it comes back blank,
>> and also wipes out most of the settings in Modem commands as well. I've
>> changed modem cables checked all the connections but still can't get the
>> modem to dial - weird !. The problem appears to be located at the line
>> but I don't know how to unravel it.
>> 
>> any thoughts please?
> 
> Can't find the dial tone?  Have you tried that with a telephone handset?
> 
> If your friend has naked ADSL, there won't be a dial tone and you can not
> use a dial up modem.
> 
> Were any lights on or flashing on the modem? Which?
> Was the power turned on?
> What did kppp report that was different from what it does at home? Did you
> try unplugging the phone?  Not using the double adapter?

Hi Peter.  In process of finding an old type plugin phone to test first
part out.  No ADSL on the line.  Modem lights start the sequence but 
then stalls at the stage where I would normally hear the dial tone and
number dialing thru the modem. kppp log doesn't register anything. Have
unplugged phone and dbl adaptor - took a direct cable from jackpoint to
modem - no difference. Will know a bit more when I can get a phone on the
end of the line. Can't understand how their phone line could be
different to mine when we are probably on the same exchange. 

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 17:39:54 +1000, Peter D. wrote:

> on Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:19
> in the Usenet newsgroup aus.computers.linux BrianM wrote:
> 
>> Mandriva O/S with KDE.
>> 
>> I have KPPP set up (and working fine) for a dialup system into Bigpond.
>> My modem is an older data/fax/voice 56000bps model. Ok it's slow but it
>> works and it's cheap. I've used a double adaptor to split the line at
>> the phone jack.
>> However, when I take the tower to a friend's place half a kay away and
>> plug the modem into their phone jack, it can't find a dial tone. When I
>> go to KPPP configure and run the Query modem ATI, it comes back blank,
>> and also wipes out most of the settings in Modem commands as well. I've
>> changed modem cables checked all the connections but still can't get the
>> modem to dial - weird !. The problem appears to be located at the line
>> but I don't know how to unravel it.
>> 
>> any thoughts please?
> 
> Can't find the dial tone?  Have you tried that with a telephone handset?
> 
> If your friend has naked ADSL, there won't be a dial tone and you can not
> use a dial up modem.
> 
> Were any lights on or flashing on the modem? Which?
> Was the power turned on?
> What did kppp report that was different from what it does at home? Did you
> try unplugging the phone?  Not using the double adapter?

As you suggested, I plugged the modem cable from the wall jack into a
phone and got a perfectly good dialtone. Also contacted Telstra and had
them run a line test which was fine - the modem should work but it doesn't
at this address. I disconnected the existing cordless phone, removed the
cable completely, but it made no difference, so it's back to the
connections from the modem to the serial plug on the tower - it can't
be anything else. 

cheers
Brian 

On Aug 3, 2:04 pm, BrianM <bmor...@nilads.co.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 17:39:54 +1000, Peter D. wrote:
> > on Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:19
> > in the Usenet newsgroup aus.computers.linux BrianM wrote:
>
> >> Mandriva O/S with KDE.
>
> >> I have KPPP set up (and working fine) for a dialup system into Bigpond.
> >> My modem is an older data/fax/voice 56000bps model. Ok it's slow but it
> >> works and it's cheap. I've used a double adaptor to split the line at
> >> the phone jack.
> >> However, when I take the tower to a friend's place half a kay away and
> >> plug the modem into their phone jack, it can't find a dial tone. When I
> >> go to KPPP configure and run the Query modem ATI, it comes back blank,
> >> and also wipes out most of the settings in Modem commands as well. I've
> >> changed modem cables checked all the connections but still can't get the
> >> modem to dial - weird !. The problem appears to be located at the line
> >> but I don't know how to unravel it.
>
> >> any thoughts please?
>
> > Can't find the dial tone?  Have you tried that with a telephone handset?
>
> > If your friend has naked ADSL, there won't be a dial tone and you can not
> > use a dial up modem.
>
> > Were any lights on or flashing on the modem? Which?
> > Was the power turned on?
> > What did kppp report that was different from what it does at home? Did you
> > try unplugging the phone?  Not using the double adapter?
>
> As you suggested, I plugged the modem cable from the wall jack into a
> phone and got a perfectly good dialtone. Also contacted Telstra and had
> them run a line test which was fine - the modem should work but it doesn't
> at this address. I disconnected the existing cordless phone, removed the
> cable completely, but it made no difference, so it's back to the
> connections from the modem to the serial plug on the tower - it can't
> be anything else.
>
> cheers
> Brian

Simple tell the modem NOT to listen to dial tone. It was 'The Order'
that solved my problems with dialing as the tones sent by exchange
were evidently different to those that the hardware was tuned to, so
it reported "No dial tone!".
Our ears can hear many different tones interpreting them as dial tone.
Hardware IS stupid.

Have fun.

On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 01:01:49 -0700, Lubiraz Alerano wrote:

> On Aug 3, 2:04 pm, BrianM <bmor...@nilads.co.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 17:39:54 +1000, Peter D. wrote:
>> > on Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:19
>> > in the Usenet newsgroup aus.computers.linux BrianM wrote:
>>
>> >> Mandriva O/S with KDE.
>>
>> >> I have KPPP set up (and working fine) for a dialup system into
>> >> Bigpond. My modem is an older data/fax/voice 56000bps model. Ok it's
>> >> slow but it works and it's cheap. I've used a double adaptor to split
>> >> the line at the phone jack.
>> >> However, when I take the tower to a friend's place half a kay away
>> >> and plug the modem into their phone jack, it can't find a dial tone.
>> >> When I go to KPPP configure and run the Query modem ATI, it comes
>> >> back blank, and also wipes out most of the settings in Modem commands
>> >> as well. I've changed modem cables checked all the connections but
>> >> still can't get the modem to dial - weird !. The problem appears to
>> >> be located at the line but I don't know how to unravel it.
>>
>> >> any thoughts please?
>>
>> > Can't find the dial tone?  Have you tried that with a telephone
>> > handset?
>>
>> > If your friend has naked ADSL, there won't be a dial tone and you can
>> > not use a dial up modem.
>>
>> > Were any lights on or flashing on the modem? Which? Was the power
>> > turned on?
>> > What did kppp report that was different from what it does at home? Did
>> > you try unplugging the phone?  Not using the double adapter?
>>
>> As you suggested, I plugged the modem cable from the wall jack into a
>> phone and got a perfectly good dialtone. Also contacted Telstra and had
>> them run a line test which was fine - the modem should work but it
>> doesn't at this address. I disconnected the existing cordless phone,
>> removed the cable completely, but it made no difference, so it's back to
>> the connections from the modem to the serial plug on the tower - it
>> can't be anything else.
>>
>> cheers
>> Brian
> 
> Simple tell the modem NOT to listen to dial tone. It was 'The Order' that
> solved my problems with dialing as the tones sent by exchange were
> evidently different to those that the hardware was tuned to, so it
> reported "No dial tone!".
> Our ears can hear many different tones interpreting them as dial tone.
> Hardware IS stupid.
> 
> Have fun.

Hi Lubiraz, thanks for your reply. I disabled the wait for dialtone in
the config but it made no difference, is there another setting?  
it may be something to do with the message bank call waiting on the line
and I'll check that out shortly. 

cheers
Brian

> Hi Lubiraz, thanks for your reply. I disabled the wait for dialtone in
> the config but it made no difference, is there another setting?
Yes, there is, the time it takes for the exchange to connect to line
AND accept dialing. If the modem starts sending dial info at wrong
time there is no recognition of it. I am sure that in Hayes commands
you insert comma before the sequence of numbers and it tells the modem
to delay dialing for some time (~2 seconds) after "picking the
handset". Don't know which language your modem speaks but in my dial
up days used this trick on wvdial configuration in Linux.

Good luck and have fun.

On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 14:04:05 +1000, BrianM wrote:
> so it's back to the connections from the modem to the 
> serial plug on the tower - it can't be anything else.

It could easily be. Everthing here that is still accessed bt serial 
interface has its own unique serial cable. Two are just various different 
commercial cables that work and the third, for a pen plotter had to be 
developed with a serial pin box and made.

On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 20:02:13 -0700, Lubiraz Alerano wrote:

> 
> 
>> Hi Lubiraz, thanks for your reply. I disabled the wait for dialtone in
>> the config but it made no difference, is there another setting?
> Yes, there is, the time it takes for the exchange to connect to line AND
> accept dialing. If the modem starts sending dial info at wrong time there
> is no recognition of it. I am sure that in Hayes commands you insert comma
> before the sequence of numbers and it tells the modem to delay dialing for
> some time (~2 seconds) after "picking the handset". Don't know which
> language your modem speaks but in my dial up days used this trick on
> wvdial configuration in Linux.
> 
> Good luck and have fun.

Ah yes I remember that now. I've used wvdial in some of the earlier
Xandros distros when I couldn't get kppp to go.  IIRC I even put 3
or 4 commas in front to slow it down. Thanks, I'll look at that

Brian

On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 03:10:22 +0000, terryc wrote:

> On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 14:04:05 +1000, BrianM wrote:
>> so it's back to the connections from the modem to the serial plug on the
>> tower - it can't be anything else.
> 
> It could easily be. Everthing here that is still accessed bt serial
> interface has its own unique serial cable. Two are just various different
> commercial cables that work and the third, for a pen plotter had to be
> developed with a serial pin box and made.

Both serial cables that I have are specific for the external modem kit.
I'm in the process of switching modems and cables around to see if one
combo will work. You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to get a
null modem serial cable these days - it's like trying to
resuscitate a dinosaur and the usual response from the tech is "try eBay"
I was quoted $50-70 for one to be made up and no guarantee it would work.

cheers
Brian