🚀 go-pugleaf

Rosie Cross (rosiex@jolt.mpx.com.au) wrote:

: What more can I say except state the facts and ask for opinion. However, 
: I do not lie and this situation in my opinion has gone far enough. Not only 
: has my reputation been brought into question , but I am now accussed of
: making statements which are so far fetched I am at a loss how to deal with
: it and shocked that someone has gone as far as saying I called them a 
: "rapist." I have never ever called anyone a rapist and have not ever ever
: posted such a slanderous lie about anyone on the net. My first reaction was
: to assume there must be another Rosie Cross my accuser is confusing me with. 
: I have no explanation why someone else should use my name, if indeed this has
: happened, or why someone should if they have gone to the lengths of setting 
: me up, suggest I should say such a thing..

Fine.  As I said in my original message on ausrave, which you plastered
all over usenet, if I have your identity wrong, then I apologise.

However, answer this question:

Have you ever taken part i the Fidonet echo called "sexism_out" which
was carried by a number of bulletin boards, in melbourne and sydney?

: This sincerely was not my intention and for those who accuse me of 
: it, I am saddened by your lack of acknowledgement of the problem and 
: devastated how genuine appeals for support and help become the focus of 
: text based hate wars which I now seem to be at the centre of. 

You know, if you had actually behave as a decent person would, none of
this would have happened, and your alleged reputation would not have
suffered. Here's what you did wrong:

a: accusing me of being sexist.
    If you had mailed me about this, I would have pointed out that at no
    time was I rejecting your statements on the basis of your gender. 
    Infact I explicitly stated that my comment was based on YOU, not
    your occupation or your gender.
    If you had been civil about it, it is highly likely that I would
    have posted a public message to ausrave stating that I at no time
    rejected you on the basis of your gender.  I intensely dislike ebing
    labelled, and I especially dislike being labelled incorrectly.

b:  posting a message to my sysadmin, in which you made a number of
rather interesting statements. These were:


: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 11:53:44 +1000 (EST)
: From: Rosie Cross <rosiex@jolt.mpx.com.au>
: Subject: complaint. (fwd)
: To: anonymous dude 
: cc: other anonymous dudes. 

: Just to let you know.., that this is the letter I just posted to the 
: sysadmin at Latrobe uni where "Dwayne" works as a computer science 
: lecturer. 

For the record, I'm a history undergrad. Yet another nail in the coffin
of unbiased messages written via email.

: ---------- Forwarded message ----------
: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 10:40:20 +1000 (EST)
: From: Rosie Cross <rosiex@jolt.mpx.com.au>
: To: root@lux.latrobe.edu.au
: Subject: complaint.

: Dear Paul Nankervis,

: Here is a copy of the response to a post made by myself by one of your 
: users Dwayne 'hiscdcj@lux.latrobe.edu.au' I am sorry I don't have mounds 
: of examples or enough damning material which may warrant Dwayne being 
: cautioned against using such foul language or derisive inferences about my 
: feminist stance, attitude or mental state.. 

This is because such examples don't exist, because, to the best or my
knowledge, I had written one (1) message to rosie over the internet, and
that was a public message to ausrave.

: I am sure you are a 
: very busy person,.and that it may be difficult to enforce rulings or 
: expect an apology based on one example. 

One would certaily hope so.

You know, if you had just kept it as a nasty message to my sysadmin, I
would have left it at that.  I had already agreed not to swear where it
will get me in trouble, and I had agreed *to have nothing further to do
with you* but you made the STUPID mistake of posting all this blather to
*4* newsgroups. Bad move, you can be nasty to me in private, and I'll
ignore you if I can't be bothered being nasty back, but I will ALWAYS be
pig-headed and stubborn if I'm attacked in public.

: Personally I am sick of being told to have a thicker skin and adviced
: to leave if I can't stand the heat. It saddens me to witness the decline
: of potential positive text based interactions because of some imported 
: notion of "free speech" and fictitious constitutional protection. I am
: also hoping that you understand that I am *constantly* being told how to
: respond, what to write, how to express myself and what language to use, 
: in a male dominated medium. The net is simply not democratic nor equitable.

It sure as hell wouldn't be if you had your way. Censorship? Pfah.

If you had asked me, you would have reallised that I wasn't damning you
on your gender.  Instead, you've attempted to whip up a lynch-mob, and
the attempt has blown up in your face, leaving you looking like a
complete and utter fool.

: I am not alone in my desire to eradicate 

arbeit mach frei, hey?

: the unnecessary language and 
: attitude of some people who firmly believe that a 'faceless' medium means 
: that 'anything goes'. I really do appreciate you taking the time to deal 
: with this matter,. I am very aware through my research that incidences of 
: sexism and abuse are not well tolerated by universities and that many 
: sysops like yourself would prefer that 'lamers' like Dwayne are not given 

                insert generic |<00l text---^

: the opportunity to waste bandwidth and if the truth be known make 
: cyberspace an unpleasant experience for all.

Well, you see, I'm doing my bit to make cyberspace a pleasant and
positive place to be.  I'm doing my bit.  What are you doing?

------------------------end included whinge-------------------------

: I know people get annoyed at my posts, and I get up people's noses because 
: of this..I apologise for anyone who has been inconvenienced by my 
: suggestions that sexism exists on the net. From my experience it does. 
: What more can I say except state the facts and ask for opinion. However, 
: I do not lie and this situation in my opinion has gone far enough. 

I'll say it has.

: Not only 
: has my reputation been brought into question , but I am now accussed of
: making statements which are so far fetched I am at a loss how to deal with
: it and shocked that someone has gone as far as saying I called them a 
: "rapist." I have never ever called anyone a rapist and have not ever ever
: posted such a slanderous lie about anyone on the net. 

Not the internet, fidonet.  I'm tracking down the logs even as we speak.
You sure you want this to go on? I'll drop it *now* if you will,
otherwise we'll see how far this can go.

Hmm, I seem to have quoted you twice.  Oops. Anyways:

: Initially I posted to the Usenet groups who I thought would respond and 
: offer intellectual open debate about the issue of sexism on_line. I 
: especially felt it important to gauge a reaction from EFA cos it was my 
: belief that this organisation was originally designed to protect and 
: encourage electronic freedom 

This does not, in the minds of most people, equate with censorship.

: and work towards equitable social and 
: technical solutions to foster the use of the internet by all peoples: 

Which is PRECISELY what I am doing.

: This sincerely was not my intention and for those who accuse me of 
: it, I am saddened by your lack of acknowledgement of the problem and 
: devastated how genuine appeals for support and help become the focus of 
: text based hate wars which I now seem to be at the centre of. 

Have you read the thread(s)?  If there are any comments being made which
are untrue, then why don't you refute them? I have done this to the best
of my ability.

: In an 
: effort not to escalate this matter further on_line, I am investigating 
: who/how/what/why/where this has happened. I certainly would have hoped 
: there is a limit to the extent some people will go to. 

So had I. I was amazed at your attemptto get people to email me.

I am also amazed that you have mailed my sysadmin and claimed that I
have been "harrassing you" via email, when I have written to you ONCE
over this, and that was a message to me sysadmin which was cc:ed to you
*as a common courtesy* so that you wouldn't think that I was talking
behind your back, something you seem to have no problems at all 
doing.

: I am extremely upset by the fact that assumptions can be made about 
: a persons mental state, their integrity, their motives, & 
: professionalism based on evidence which may turn out to be doctored or 
: due to a simple mistaken identity. I would very much like to see the
: "evidence" against me and I would hope that this matter can be resolved.

I'm working on it. I'm quite happy to drop the matter here and now. It's
up to you how far you want this to go.  The reason I have been so pig
headed about this is because I have received quite a lot of email from
people who claim they have been treated in much the same fashion by you,
but were either too scared or apathetic to do anything about it.
Perhaps this whole debacle will teach you some rudimentary netiquette,
that being:

don't repost private messages in a public forum
take the complaint to the person before taking it further
don't go behind people's backs
don't make claims you can't support
don't lie about someone
don't try and drum up support if you're too incompetent to defend
      yourself.

: Needless to say I don;t write as well as other people and I am often 
: frustrated by my own inability to express a view without coming across 
: like a fruitcake or someone with a cross to bear.

Perhaps you need to think hard about something before posting?  Tis is
EXACTLY how you have come across so far in this encounter.  In fact,
this is about the first reasoned and balanced thing I have ever seen you
write, anywhere.

: I know that this is boring especially to people who have accussed me of 
: being a whining scumbag nobody whacko journo,.,._but_ I think if anyone 
: of you were in the same or similar situation you would be doing your damn 
: best to get to the bottom of it and try and seek support from the people 
: who you would imagine to be like minded, fair and intelligent 
: individuals who can tell when someone is being "rolled".

Yup.

This is what I did.

I think the record will show just who it was who was being "rolled".


Like I said, you drop and I will. Keep going, and, well, I'm very
resourceful, and have an awful lot of spare time on my hands now that
the uni year is over. I can write till the cows come home.

Dwayne.

-|-+-|-     r e t u r n     t o       t h e     s o u r c e     -|-+-|-
                 internet: hiscdcj@lux.latrobe.edu.au
-|-+-|-       OurAimIsWakefulnessOurEnemyIsDreamlessSleep       -|-+-|-

looking for * permaculture * resources on the net. Mail me with URLs 

NEXUS:.settling.the.electronic.frontier..     mail listserv@netcom.com
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/nexus/              "subscribe nexus-gaia" 


: In an 
: effort not to escalate this matter further on_line, I am investigating 
: who/how/what/why/where this has happened. I certainly would have hoped 
: there is a limit to the extent some people will go to. 

: I am extremely upset by the fact that assumptions can be made about 
: a persons mental state, their integrity, their motives, & 
: professionalism based on evidence which may turn out to be doctored or 
: due to a simple mistaken identity. I would very much like to see the
: "evidence" against me and I would hope that this matter can be resolved.
: Needless to say I don;t write as well as other people and I am often 
: frustrated by my own inability to express a view without coming across 
: like a fruitcake or someone with a cross to bear.
:  
: I know that this is boring especially to people who have accussed me of 
: being a whining scumbag nobody whacko journo,.,._but_ I think if anyone 
: of you were in the same or similar situation you would be doing your damn 
: best to get to the bottom of it and try and seek support from the people 
: who you would imagine to be like minded, fair and intelligent 
: individuals who can tell when someone is being "rolled".

: RosieX

--


-|-+-|-     r e t u r n     t o       t h e     s o u r c e     -|-+-|-
                 internet: hiscdcj@lux.latrobe.edu.au
-|-+-|-       OurAimIsWakefulnessOurEnemyIsDreamlessSleep       -|-+-|-

looking for * permaculture * resources on the net. Mail me with URLs 

NEXUS:.settling.the.electronic.frontier..     mail listserv@netcom.com
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/nexus/              "subscribe nexus-gaia"