🚀 go-pugleaf

On 7/15/2011 2:31 PM, jcdill wrote:
> <http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/15/BAUL1KB1PH.DTL&tsp=1>
>
>
> Briefly: Bicyclist, northbound on Embarcadero, runs a red light and
> plows into a 60 year old woman who was crossing in the cross walk. She
> suffered a very serious life-threatening head injury.
>
> This is why bicyclists need to obey traffic laws!
>

[snip long discourse on bicycle rider responsibility]

Bicyclists ALWAYS run red lights.
Bicyclists NEVER obey traffic laws.

You were preaching to the deaf, blind, and mentally impaired with this post.

Jonz

On 15/07/11 7:05 PM, Jonz wrote:
> On 7/15/2011 2:31 PM, jcdill wrote:
>> <http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/15/BAUL1KB1PH.DTL&tsp=1>
>>
>>
>>
>> Briefly: Bicyclist, northbound on Embarcadero, runs a red light and
>> plows into a 60 year old woman who was crossing in the cross walk. She
>> suffered a very serious life-threatening head injury.
>>
>> This is why bicyclists need to obey traffic laws!
>>
>
> [snip long discourse on bicycle rider responsibility]
>
> Bicyclists ALWAYS run red lights.
> Bicyclists NEVER obey traffic laws.

I disagree with both of those statements.  I know bicyclists who do not 
run red lights, and who obey traffic laws.  They may not be in the 
majority, but they exist.

> You were preaching to the deaf, blind, and mentally impaired with this
> post.

I doubt it.

jc

On 7/16/2011 1:27 PM, jcdill wrote:

> I disagree with both of those statements. I know bicyclists who do not
> run red lights, and who obey traffic laws. They may not be in the
> majority, but they exist.
>

I have never, EVER, seen a bicyclist stop for a red light unless the 
traffic was heavy enough so that even the mentally impaired rider 
realized that (s)he would be squished by oncoming traffic.

I really have to wonder what these riders have between their ears when I 
see a rider blow thru a red light by weaving onto and using the 
pedestrian crosswalk. I guess they figure that they magically become a 
pedestrian and traffic is required to stop for a pedestrian in a 
crosswalk.

>> You were preaching to the deaf, blind, and mentally impaired with this
>> post.
>
> I doubt it.
>
> jc

Jonz <no.one@ishome.com> writes:

> I have never, EVER, seen a bicyclist stop for a red light unless the
> traffic was heavy enough so that even the mentally impaired rider
> realized that (s)he would be squished by oncoming traffic.

I stop for red lights all the time on my bicycle.  I see other
bicyclists stop for red lights all the time.

You are a liar and a troll.
-- 
Ben Pfaff 
http://benpfaff.org

>> = Jonz
>> I have never, EVER, seen a bicyclist stop for a red light
>> unless the traffic was heavy enough so that even the mentally
>> impaired rider realized that (s)he would be squished by
>> oncoming traffic.

=v= The operative part of this statement is the part about the
subject (that would be "Jonz") being blinded by observation
bias (not having seen something which does, in fact, occur).

> = Ben Pfaff
> You are a liar and a troll.

=v= Anonymous, too.  This makes "Jonz" an ideal candidate for
the hateful troll spewfest in the SFGate comments.
    <_Jym_>

> = jcdill
> This is why bicyclists need to obey traffic laws!

=v= San Francisco is statistically most dangerous city in the
West for pedestrians.  There are, on average, two people hit
and seriously injured by cars every day.  The _Chronicle_ has
gone through major cutbacks and doesn't have the resources to
write a story for every one of these incidents.

=v= Something like this comes along rarely, though, and they
can count on overgeneralization, finger-waggling, and other
fussing, so they churned out two stories about it.
    <_Jym_>

I've said for years that bicyclists who run red lights are hurting
other bicyclists, because every time a bicyclist runs a red light,
every driver who sees it hates all bicyclists a little bit more.  This
sad incident is a reminder that there are also more concrete forms of
hurt caused by red-light runners.

On 7/16/2011 9:37 PM, Ben Pfaff wrote:
> Jonz<no.one@ishome.com>  writes:
>
>> I have never, EVER, seen a bicyclist stop for a red light unless the
>> traffic was heavy enough so that even the mentally impaired rider
>> realized that (s)he would be squished by oncoming traffic.
>
> I stop for red lights all the time on my bicycle.  I see other
> bicyclists stop for red lights all the time.
>

Well, good for you! If I ever run into you, I will stop and pin a gold 
star on your chest.

Thanks for the sampling of data, JC.

I stop at red lights, and slow down and
prepare to stop at stop signs if it's not my
turn.

My experience on Foothill expressway in
the evening is that most of the cyclists stop,
but my sense is that red light running, and
right-turn/U-turn/right turn red light
avoidance has become more common amoung the racing/training
crowd this year, than has been in the past.
It is still low (less than 5 % of solo cyclists, maybe
only 2%.)  The guys I see (always guys) are on their
own, either with a fancy bike and matching kit, or
a fine italian steel racing bike and no helmet.
Well, that was probably 2 of the five people I've seen.
Cycling groups/clubs
do stop if the light is red, but become colorblind
when the light changes and their lead rider is arriving
at the intersection.  (This happens to my club, too, and
sometimes you hear amazing rationalizations for this.)

If you have a conversation starter for when you
catch up with one of these guys at the next light,
let me know.  We can always talk about our local
cycling fatalities and injuries from this kind of thing.

-- Robert

On 17/07/11 9:01 PM, Robert Neff wrote:

> If you have a conversation starter for when you
> catch up with one of these guys at the next light,
> let me know. We can always talk about our local
> cycling fatalities and injuries from this kind of thing.

It wasn't at a light, but I did have a conversation with a woman who ran 
2 stop signs on Campus Loop at Stanford about a week ago.  I was in the 
right lane, another car was at my left, we stopped at a stop sign for a 
pedestrian.  The bike ran the stop sign, but fortunately the pedestrian 
was still in front of my car and thus uninjured.  At the next 
intersection, same thing only *this* time I was stopped to let another 
vehicle that had the right of way (being at the intersection before I 
arrived) cross from left to right.  That vehicle saw the bicyclist 
passing my car, realized the bike wasn't going to stop, and stopped in 
the middle of the intersection (blocking my lane) as the bicyclist blew 
thru the stop sign to my right.

I passed the bicyclist and then pulled into the bike lane at the next 
stop sign, getting out and holding up my hand as a cop would do when 
directing traffic, and got the bike to stop.  I explained to the rider 
that she had come very close to getting killed at the previous 
intersection by not stopping.  The rider kept saying she was lost, 
asking if I knew where a particular building or street was.  I said I 
didn't know, but I did know that she better start stopping at stop 
signs.  She finally GOT it.

Rider was wearing regular clothes, riding a bike with upright handlebars 
and a basket in front, and no helmet - the complete opposite of the 
typical lycra-clad racers on Foothill.

jc