🚀 go-pugleaf

Folks,

I appreciate your comments on the Project Gutenberg Newsletter and
NETTRAIN.  In order to keep this discussion from interfering with the
regular business of NETTRAIN, I will combine all postings related
to this issue and issue them no more than twice a day.  If you
do not wish to follow this discussion, please delete this message.

Jim Milles (listowner/moderator, NETTRAIN)    Fax: (314) 658-3966
Head of Computer Services                   Phone: (314) 658-2759
Saint Louis University Law Library        millesjg@sluvca.slu.edu


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------


Date: Mon, 01 Feb 93 13:51:59 MST
From: Skip Knox <DUSKNOX%IDBSU.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

Jim's the moderator of NETTRAIN so Jim should be able to pick and choose
as he pleases.  If we don't like his choices, we unsubscribe.  It's
quick, it's easy, it's democratic.  Mr. Hart is free to complain, but
he ought to have done his complaining directly to Mr. Milles and not
used his newsletters for a public broadside.

It's good netiquette, and it's common civility.  Can we go back to
work now?

Ellis "Skip" Knox       dusknox@idbsu.idbsu.edu
PC Coordinator & Faculty Computer Lab Supervisor
Professor of History
Boise State University  Boise, Idaho


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 93 15:58:59 -0500
From: jpolly@nysernet.ORG

I like to see what's new in Project Gutenberg's archive, but I don't
necessarily need to see the entire list of everything that's available each
time. And I guess in general I'd like to get the New Updates List from
somewhere like Susan Calcari's list for Internet Resource discovery
(nis@cerf.net), and not NETTRAIN, although I do agree that it was
interesting to hear about the NorthWestNet User Guide. I can't imagine
sending individual notes to a zillion lists, though, just pulling out
particular etexts of interest to that group, unless one had a LOT of
volunteers.

I think it's neat that Michael Hart has put my Surfing article in his
archive, with minor changes he made. Gutenberg has particular formatting
and other requirements, for example, I never put two spaces after each
period, and Gutenberg prefers two spaces. Hart made some other changes too.

Please remember that the most current version of Surfing will always be up
in my home archive, nysernet.org /pub/resources/guides.

Jean Armour Polly
Manager of Network Development & User Training
NYSERNet, Inc.
111 College Place Syracuse, NY  13244
315/ 443-4120.... FAX 315/425-7518....jpolly@nysernet.org
"NYSERNet....how to get there from here."


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon,  1 Feb 1993 15:15 CST
From: Deanie Health Research SWT <DV02%SWTEXAS.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

I personally like the postings and if I didn't I would delete the message as I
soon as read where it was from.


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: 1 Feb 93 16:47:17 EDT
From: Pete Hoyle <PETE@tsrv1.ts.wm.edu>

I suppose I am not happy to receive 400-line postings to most any
list except one specifically for the newsletter in question. That
is, if I want the Gutenberg newsletter in its entirety, I will
subscribe to a list that provides that and only that. (Personally I
find sources of text interesting and useful, so I would subscribe
to such a list if I were not so often finding it in less
appropriate places.)

Since the subject matter is marginally related to the NETTRAIN
subject area, it would be acceptible if NETTRAIN published a short
announcement when a new issue of the Guttenberg newsletter is
available, including, of course, information about where I can ftp
or otherwise acquire the new issue. Actually, since I am one of the
ones who feels fairly strongly about lists keeping to their own
subjects, I think the list nis@cerf.net would be an even better
place to post such an announcement; this would allow NETTRAIN to
discuss other subjects like, for instance, network training.

--Pete Hoyle     William & Mary Computer Center - Tech Support
  pete@tsrv1.ts.wm.edu


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 01 Feb 93 15:57:06 CST
From: Nancy <HILL%CMSUVMA.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

I do find the information useful for training people. It helps them see
why they would want to use telnet and ftp.


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 01 Feb 93 15:57:05 CST
From: "David J. Ives" <ELDJIVES%MIZZOU1.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

Vis a vis Jim Milles' thoughtful request, I cast one vote against this
LISTSERV carrying the Gutenberg material.  True, one only has to delete
it, BUT postings of that size hog precious mainframe storage space.
I have nothing against the Gutenburg project/material in its place -- and
perhaps its place is on its own listserv?

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
David J. Ives
Microcomputer Systems Group
U. of Missouri -- MU Libraries
ELDJIVES@MIZZOU1 or ELDJIVES@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU
Not Affiliated With/Profiting From This Planet.


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1993 20:42:42 GMT
From: jw2b@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Sara J. Wagner)

Personally, I would just as soon not see the Gutenberg stuff here.  It
shows up on lots of other lists, and is only marginally relevant to
the purpose of this list.

--
Jane Wagner, Computer Systems and Publications Assistant
The Claude Moore Health Sciences Library| INTERNET: jw2b@virginia.edu
Box 234, UVA Health Sciences Center     | PHONE:    804-924-0188
Charlottesville, VA  22908              | BITNET:   jw2b@virginia.bitnet


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 93 14:19:09 PST
From: lb05gate%UCSBUXA.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (Rick Gates)

Many thanks to Jim Milles for doing what is quite obviously, a tough
job.  I'm planning to be in the same boat pretty soon myself, (gulp).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Gates                              (805) 893-7225
Dir. of Library Automation
Univ. of California Library
Santa Barbara, CA  93106                lb05gate@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1993 16:29:36 -0700
From: Mary Lynn Rice-Lively <lyaa100@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu>

Jim:

Nettrain has been a joy (well, maybe not a JOY, but much improved) since
you agreed to moderate.  If you are taking a vote, put mine down for not
posting the Gutenberg Newsletter.  They are doing a wonderful job, I care
what is being done, but I look for that kind of information from PACS-L or
some other source.  Maybe he needs to establish a listserv discussion group
of his own so that folks who wanted to be the first to know "what's new
with Gutenberg."  I feel pretty strongly about NETTRAIN doing just that.
Heaven knows we all read about "tons" (poor image) of electronic stuff, but
it is nice to know when I look at NETTRAIN it is going to be about
"training on the net."

Thanks again for taking on this task.  By the way, how many subscribers are
there to this list?  Any demographic breakdown (edu, co, country, etc.)?

Mary Lynn Rice-Lively
LIS and MSIS Librarian
General Libraries
University of Texas at Austin
ml.rice-lively@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1993 16:36:11 EST
From: "Peter M. Weiss" <PMW1@psuvm.psu.edu>

I think it would have been sufficient to post pointers to the
Gutenberg stuff.

NETTRAINers should have enough savvy to figure out how to
get from here to there.

Just my .02 non-denominational units.

/Pete


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1993 18:25:33 EST
From: "Donald Day, Syracuse University"
 <D01DAYXX%SUVM.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

Regarding the Gutenberg issue: I believe the flood of information
available on the networks makes it imperative to focus one's in-
terests as much as possible. Cross-posting defeats this goal to
some extent, but it is a valuable pursuit, nevertheless. My solu-
tion to the Gutenberg controversy was to subscribe directly to
Hart's listserv, since I do have an interest in the dissemination
of etexts. If anyone else feels as I do, here's the signup:

TELL LISTSERV AT UIUCVMD SUBSCRIBE GUTNBERG your_name

Please note the spelling of the list, no doubt truncated due to
antiquated naming conventions.


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: 1 Feb 1993 23:48:23 GMT
From: tdowling@lib.washington.edu (Thomas Dowling)

Register my vote against Gutenberg material on NETTRAIN.  I wish Mr.
Hart well in his endeavor to bring a zillion electronic texts to every
man, woman, and child (and most dogs and cats) on the planet, but it
has no defensible connection to the process of training people to use
the nets.

I think NETTRAIN, as a list, could (should?) learn from the lesson of
PACS-L.  PACS-L started with a fairly well-defined focus--incorporating
public access computer systems into library service--but found itself
incapable of turning away any subject which its subscribers considered
a Good Thing.  This has gradually made PACS-L the general, all-purpose
library list, with job postings for catalogers, criticisms of slow
software updates, announcements of almost every meeting at ALA
conferences, etc. etc.  And of course Project Gutenberg announcements.
All of these are arguably Good to have online somewhere, but it sure
makes PACS-L unreliable as a concise source of information regarding
public access computer systems.

If NETTRAIN similarly becomes unable to avoid a subject just because
one (or a few, or even many) subscribers want to discuss it--no matter
how far afield it is--then it becomes not only useless but redundantly
so.


Thomas Dowling
University of Washington Engineering Library
tdowling@u.washington.edu


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 01 Feb 93 18:40:06 CST
From: Jack Smith <LHL0006%UABDPO.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

Mr. Hart's posting of Project G.'s  latest titles are posted to other
lists, so I will not miss them if NETTRAIN does not post to the list.
Even if that were not the case, I find little information in his postings
that enables me to be a better trainer.

Jack Smith, Acting Associate Director, Public Services
Lister Hill Library of the Health Sciences
The University of Alabama at Birmingham
LHL0006@UABDPO.DPO.UAB.EDU


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 01 Feb 93 21:18:40 EST
From: BERTGK@ukpr.uky.edu

Colleagues on NETTRAIN,

I believe that it is appropriate to announce the availability of documents
from Project Gutenberg on the NETTRAIN.  HOwever I do not believe it is
appropriate for the NETTRAIN to be a vehicle for communicating all the
activities of the Gutenberg Project nor should the director fo the project
have any more right to post announcments to the NETTRAIN discussion group
than any other member of NETTRAIN.

WIthout knowing what has been weeded out, except the specifics of the
GUtenberg Project, I feel comfortable with what I have been getting in recent
weeks on NETTRAIN.  The information is certainly more managable and I don't
feel like I've missed a whole lot.

I look forward to hearing from others.

Tom Kirk
Berea College
Berea, KY 40404

BERTGK@UKPR.UKY.EDU


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1993 21:30:20 EDT
From: David Miner <miner@lis.fus.edu>

I would be more than happy to see current/immediate postings of Project
Gutenberg newsletters.  However, it would be nice if that were there sole
content instead of containing all of Mr. Hart's comments.

David
----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Miner               School of Library & Information Studies R106
                          Florida State University
voice: (904) 644-8107     Tallahassee, FL 32306-2048
fax:   (904) 644-9763
Internet: miner@lis.fsu.edu   Bitnet:  miner@fsu.BITNET


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Mon, 01 Feb 93 20:45:36 CST
From: Bill Strickland <LBRF@MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

   I would like to second the opinions of Lloyd Davidson and others
in that Mr. Hart should start his own list where he could post reams
of material at will. I usually hit the delete key when I see any posting
from him.

                            Bill Strickland

                            Tulane University