🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <37p9uk$nn4@crl6.crl.com> ourston@crl.com (Todd Ourston) writes:

Aloha Todd..

Admiring your excellent, level headed response to Eric Mankin's abhorently 
typical rhetoric.

>As a matter of fact, there is one (and only one) private park for 
>motorcycle use near me.  It is closely monitored by Marin County's 
>various agencies and commissions that are concerned about the ecology and 
>habitat values in the largely undeveloped two-thirds of the county where 
>the park is situated.  Although many of the staff members leave no doubt 
>that they dislike the park as a matter of principle, they have been 
>unable to document any environmental damage that would warrant further 
>restrictions or closing it.  In fact, they just forked over several tens 
>of thousands of gas tax dollars that are earmarked for maintaining the 
>trails in the park and mitigating damage to the surrounding environment.

Could you provide contact telephone numbers for the park. I would like to 
obtain the information you have mentioned for further reference.

>The point of my request was to focus attention on the cavalier attitude 
>of the previous poster who was quite certain that there were ample 
>opportunities for off-road motorists to do their thing.  That is the same 
>sort of nonsense that anti-environmentalists spout off: there's plenty of 
>wildland left, so go somewhere else and let us cut trees, mine minerals, 
>dam streams, build roads, etc., here.  Sometimes it helps to inventory 
>these imaginary resources instead of simply assuming that they exist in 
>ample quantity.  

Eric is a proponent of one, if not many, of the "Big Environmental Lies"..

>It helps, too, to be reminded that none of us have a right to run public
>land as though it were our private property, ignoring the wishes of other
>segments of the public.  If it's public, it needs to be managed with the
>broad range of public interests in mind.  Cooperation, rather than
>coercion, is the key to longterm protection of our varied interests. 

>: But I'm disturbed by your attitude. You don't deny that ORV's are
>: destructive to the desert. 

Answering Eric's remark (not Eric)..

In the early 1980's I actively raced motorcycles in the Desert. At that time, 
individual races were held almost every weekend. Most often in different areas
and on different routes. Generally, routes were re-used once a year to some 
degree. Many of these routes when left alone for as little as 8 months 
revealed no sign of previous travel.  Ribbons had to be placed to 
mark the course. 

I am not denying that repeated use of any one route or small area will not 
cause damage. Such is evident in the Lucerne Valley and El Mirage Dry Lake 
area. Both are small designated ORV areas, that are overused.

In contrast, 4-5 times per year we camped and rode in the Eastern Mojave. An 
area soon to be closed by S-21.  Most riding was on existing two track roads. 
Some travel was cross-country. In that mode, a good sense of direction and 
knowledge of landmarks were essential to your life. Through all the years we 
spent in the Eastern Mojave, I can count less than a dozen occurrences where we 
encountered other riders. Also, outside of the two track roads I mentioned. We 
never, ever,  found traces of our previous paths through the desert. 
With that experience, I believe ORV damage to the open areas of the 
Mojave (Eastern etc.) is a lie!  I doubt that Eric, like most enviro's, has 
ever ventured in to the area to investigate for themselves. Yet, they 
sheepishly absorb the "Big Lie" from the radical and often mainstay 
environmental organization then, arrogantly pass judgment on an entire form of 
recreation.


>: you have inherent right to go 
>: destroy land that belongs to all of us, all for the sake of a momentary
>: adrenaline rush/General Rommel fantasy. I can't help feeling this is
>: selfish.

Typical..

>And I can't help but believe that you are projecting your own selfishness 
>and narrow mindedness onto me.  Who the hell are you to tell other 
>members of the public that your preservation and privacy issues are more 
>important than their ways of enjoying the environment?  Why should they 
>(or I) respect your wishes at all if you are unwilling to extend the same 
>respect and understanding to others.

Eric's attitude is the one greatest detriment to the enviro movement.

Patrick J. Chicas
FOLMA #6