🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <12798@brl-adm.ARPA> rick@seismo.CSS.GOV (Rick Adams) writes:
>
>You want to avoid mixing ! and @ if at all possible (and it is
>almost always possible)

What if you have a bunch of uucp machines that only know ! addresses
and you don't want to store routing info on all of them anyway.  One
machine can talk to the rest of the world, and some of the others are
two (local) hops away.
Where you have machines a!b!c, is there an acceptable way for machine 
a to request machine c to do its routing, assuming a and b only know
uucp ! addresses?  Does the answer depend on b not knowing about @?

Leslie Mikesell
                    ...ihnp4!chinet!les

In article <12798@brl-adm.ARPA> rick@seismo.CSS.GOV (Rick Adams) writes:
>>You want to avoid mixing ! and @ if at all possible (and it is
>>almost always possible)

In article <4557@chinet.UUCP> les@chinet.UUCP (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
>What if you have a bunch of uucp machines that only know ! addresses
>and you don't want to store routing info on all of them anyway.  One
>machine can talk to the rest of the world, and some of the others are
>two (local) hops away.

For the most part, UUCP machines that do routing run the smail
program and handle the domain!user convention (all the official
UUCP-Internet gateways do).  So yes, you can mail to an ARPA site
using all-bang paths.  Mail to me using ...!uunet!epimass.epi.com!jbuck,
for example.  This type of address is completely unambiguous (unless
it goes through a rerouting mailer but that's another war); the details
are discussed in the RFC by Mark Horton (forget the number).

>Where you have machines a!b!c, is there an acceptable way for machine 
>a to request machine c to do its routing, assuming a and b only know
>uucp ! addresses?  Does the answer depend on b not knowing about @?

See above.  If c is your gateway machine and runs smail or other
software that supports host.domain!user, you can just mail to
a!b!c!host.domain!user.




-- 
- Joe Buck  {uunet,ucbvax,sun,<smart-site>}!epimass.epi.com!jbuck
	    Old Internet mailers: jbuck%epimass.epi.com@uunet.uu.net

In article <2052@epimass.EPI.COM> jbuck@epimass.EPI.COM (Joe Buck) writes:
>

>In article <4557@chinet.UUCP> les@chinet.UUCP (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
>>What if you have a bunch of uucp machines that only know ! addresses
>>and you don't want to store routing info on all of them anyway.  One
>>machine can talk to the rest of the world, and some of the others are
>>two (local) hops away.

For one thing, why would your have a bunch of uucp machines that only know
! addresses (which are probably actually routes, NOT addresses)? With
the free smail package, and the ease with which it can be installed, there
just doesn't seem to be a reason why a uucp machine can not understand
the "@" syntax.


>
>For the most part, UUCP machines that do routing run the smail
>program and handle the domain!user convention (all the official
>UUCP-Internet gateways do).  So yes, you can mail to an ARPA site
>using all-bang paths.  Mail to me using ...!uunet!epimass.epi.com!jbuck,
>for example.  This type of address is completely unambiguous (unless
>it goes through a rerouting mailer but that's another war); the details
>are discussed in the RFC by Mark Horton (forget the number).

One clarification:

   ...!uunet!epimass.epi.com!jbuck is NOT an address, it is a route. Using
this type of syntax depends on where you are sending the mail from. For one
person, the route might be ihnp4!rutgers!uunet!epimass.epi.com!jbuck, and
for someone else, it might be ucbvax!harvard!uunet!epimess.epi.com!jbuck.
It's not an address if it depends on where the mail is being sent from.


   An address would be:

	jbuck@epimass.epi.com
		or
	epimass.epi.com!jbuck

provided your are running smart mailer. This address will get mail to Joe
no matter where it is being sent from, including UUCP machines running 
smart mailers, and the DDN.

Mark Horton gave a good example somewhere, which I forget, that gives a good
example of the difference between a route and an address. If you think of
an address in the sense of a postal address, it makes sense: No matter where
you mail a letter from, the address for the recipient always stays the same,
regardless of if you're in New York, California, or even (God forbid!)
Columbus, Ohio.

					Tim Thompson
					tgt@cblpf.att.com

In article <1121@cblpf.ATT.COM> tgt@cblpf.ATT.COM (45264-Tim Thompson) writes:
>   ...!uunet!epimass.epi.com!jbuck is NOT an address, it is a route. Using
>this type of syntax depends on where you are sending the mail from...
...
>It's not an address if it depends on where the mail is being sent from.

Not so.

The string "uunet!epimass.epi.com!jbuck" is an address if you are on a
system that recognizes the host "uunet".  This is the case if you are
running smail and have a pathalias database built from the UUCP maps.

The string "uunet!epimass.epi.com!jbuck" is a route if your system has
a direct connection with uunet.  This is the case for a large number of
sites.

Whether a string is a route or an address or both depends to a large
extent on what kind of software you are running.  On a system with
BITNET access only, which does not understand UUCP path syntax,
"uunet!epimass.epi.com!jbuck" is neither an address nor a route.
Fortunately such machines are rare (though not rare enough).
-- 
Rahul Dhesi         UUCP:  <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee,uunet}!bsu-cs!dhesi

In article <1121@cblpf.ATT.COM> tgt@cblpf.ATT.COM (45264-Tim Thompson) writes:
>For one thing, why would your have a bunch of uucp machines that only know
>! addresses (which are probably actually routes, NOT addresses)? With
>the free smail package, and the ease with which it can be installed, there
>just doesn't seem to be a reason why a uucp machine can not understand
>the "@" syntax.

Two reasons:
  The machines are small and fairly loaded as is; I don't want each of
them to have to store the names of all the machines in the known universe
or to search such a table every time mail is sent.
  Also, the machines are either on a network or connected by dedicated
lines. Most do not have modems, so mail to the rest of the world must be
routed through a machine that has modems (and fewer users).

>One clarification:
>
>   ...!uunet!epimass.epi.com!jbuck is NOT an address, it is a route. Using
>   An address would be:
>	jbuck@epimass.epi.com

The all ! route should work for me, if the gateway machine is set up to
reroute.  However, it seems like this would be a common problem and that
there should be a defined syntax to force a route to a known machine and
request it to interpret the remaining part as an address (perhaps this
is it?).
          Les Mikesell

I can send mail from killer to uunet!epimass.epi.com!jbuck and Joe
will get it. killer doesn't know uunet, but the mailer will find a route
there. This is an address, not a route. To further illustrate the
point, classify the following as route or address.

jbuck%epimass.epi.com@uunet.uu.net
@uunet.uu.net:jbuck@epimass.epi.com

..b

In article <1121@cblpf.ATT.COM> Tim Thompson writes:
>With
>the free smail package, and the ease with which it can be installed, there
>just doesn't seem to be a reason why a uucp machine can not understand
>the "@" syntax.

In article <4634@chinet.UUCP> Leslie Mikesell writes:
>Two reasons:
>  The machines are small and fairly loaded as is; I don't want each of
>them to have to store the names of all the machines in the known universe
>or to search such a table every time mail is sent.

This is unnecessary.  Assign one of the machines in your organization to
be the gateway to the world; give the remaining machines a paths file
that only knows about your local machine topology; make smart-host
point to your gateway machine.  Even your smart-host machine doesn't
have to use the full map; you could just give it the d.* files from
comp.mail.maps to crunch on so it knows about domain gateways.

>  Also, the machines are either on a network or connected by dedicated
>lines. Most do not have modems, so mail to the rest of the world must be
>routed through a machine that has modems (and fewer users).

Then my above proposal is perfect for you.  Your internal machines
can be set up to hand everything but local mail to your smart host.



-- 
- Joe Buck  {uunet,ucbvax,sun,<smart-site>}!epimass.epi.com!jbuck
	    Old Internet mailers: jbuck%epimass.epi.com@uunet.uu.net