🚀 go-pugleaf

I would not like to make any derogatory comments about specific companies,
so from my experience I would suggest that your friend, as a new user,
might buy his PC from Dan or Gateway, for example. These companies are
geared up, and happy to support inexperienced users.

Some Direct suppliers not mentioned above, in my experience, often seem to
have trouble with delivery dates and answering technical support lines.

You may be interested to know that Time are part of a group called
Granville. They advertise under several other names which I think may
include Colossus, MJN, MR PC and others. Often their address is 'Granville
House' in Burnley, but not always!

Note that in addition to the cost of the machine, your friend should
consider how good the technical support and after sales service is. It may
be worth paying a few extra pounds. For example, Gateway has a free phone
number for pre and post sales and technical support.

Also note that the software bundles offered with many PCs are often old
versions that can be purchased very cheaply as separate items. When a
company advertises that their bundle is worth �500 when sold separately,
you may find that this is true...... at last year's prices. In addition,
you may find that manuals and discs are not supplied. The 'educational'
packages given away with PCs are, from my experience, of little value. I
would recommend going for a mainstream bundle such as the Microsoft Office
or similar.

Please note that the above information is correct to the best of my
knowledge is drawn from *personal* experience.

Regards,
Innes

Sam Sexton <Sam@leofric.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<qprnqAAbBHkyEwGd@leofric.demon.co.uk>...
> A friend of mine is about to buy his first PC, mainly for his young
> daughter's edutainment purposes. We pored over various ads in PC Shopper
> over the weekend, with my steering him towards a Dan system, based on
> Dan's reputation for reliability and service. However, there was an ad
> for Time systems in the Independent that had a similar configuration for
> about GBP1000 rather than 1200. I've no experience of Time and so would
> appreciate news of any bouquets or brickbats regarding their systems and
> service.
> 

Sam Sexton <Sam@leofric.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>A friend of mine is about to buy his first PC, mainly for his young
>daughter's edutainment purposes. We pored over various ads in PC Shopper
>over the weekend, with my steering him towards a Dan system, based on
>Dan's reputation for reliability and service. However, there was an ad
>for Time systems in the Independent that had a similar configuration for
>about GBP1000 rather than 1200. I've no experience of Time and so would
>appreciate news of any bouquets or brickbats regarding their systems and
>service.

>For the record, we're looking at something like: 133MHz, 1.2GB hdd,
>8x CDROM, 14-15" monitor and sound in the region of a grand (pounds), so
>if you're particularly impressed (or otherwise!) with a similar system,
>please let me know.

>Thanks in advance - email replies would be appreciated.
>-- 
>Sam Sexton                                           (+44|0)1203 256562
>Reuters Ltd                                             
>Coventry, UK

A friend of mine bought a computer from Time. It took 6 weeks to
arrive, although his credit card was debitted the day he ordered it.
When it finally arrived there was no monitor with it. The monitor
arrived a week later, but was broken. When a new monitor finally
arrived the system initially worked, but when he bought a printer and
plugged it in the picture went off. When he unplugged the printer lead
the picture came back on.

The staff were unhelpful to say the least. The sales staff refused to
deal with his questions stating that they were unable to transfer
callers, and insisted he ring another number which was constantly
engaged. None of the managers were ever available to answer calls.

After two months of constant problems and bad service, my friend asked
for a full refund. Time accepted this and finally re-creditted his
credit card two weeks after the computer was returned.

And if anyone from Time wishes to dispute my account. I would like to
point out that my friend is a solicitor, and it was only the threat of
legal action by him which "speeded" you up. We have of course kept
full documentation of this affair.

Technically the system was wierd. Although the system had 8Mb of Ram,
the video card was on the motherboard and used 1Mb of it, so in effect
you only had 7Mb to use for your programs. Time made no mention of the
amount of video Ram in their adverts. It's a good idea to ask them
before you order. The graphic were pretty slow as well.

It may be �200 cheaper, but I guess you get what you pay for.

Sam Sexton <Sam@leofric.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>A friend of mine is about to buy his first PC, mainly for his young
>daughter's edutainment purposes. We pored over various ads in PC Shopper
>over the weekend, with my steering him towards a Dan system, based on
>Dan's reputation for reliability and service. However, there was an ad
>for Time systems in the Independent that had a similar configuration for
>about GBP1000 rather than 1200. I've no experience of Time and so would
>appreciate news of any bouquets or brickbats regarding their systems and
>service.
>
>For the record, we're looking at something like: 133MHz, 1.2GB hdd,
>8x CDROM, 14-15" monitor and sound in the region of a grand (pounds), so
>if you're particularly impressed (or otherwise!) with a similar system,
>please let me know.
>
>Thanks in advance - email replies would be appreciated.

My advice would be to steer clear of the big operators, and find a
small computer shop or dealer near where you live (if you happen to be
within about 30 miles of Chippenham give me a call!). You will usually
get a better performance to price ratio from such a dealer, and almost
always better service.
For example I take a 10% deposit with an order, I deliver at the
customer's convenience a week later, and receive the balance of
payment then (rather than taking the full amount from your credit card
and then delivering a few weeks later - although of course, not all
the big operators are like this). I deliver machines (which I build
myself) personnally, and set them up in the place where they are to be
used - and they always work (so far......). If anything does go wrong
my customers know exactly who to speak to, and I offer speedy on-site
maintenance. I'm not particularly blowing my trumpet - but this is the
kind of thing that very few large mail order companies can offer - it
would just be too expensive for them.
So seek out a local firm, or better still call a few, give them a copy
of the description of Time's machine, and see if they can match or
beat the quote...

Oh - one other thing, if you do buy from a big firm, try to check
first that their machines are built of "generic" parts - I don't mean
no-name brand parts, but parts of a fairly standard nature. Some big
companies (like Gatewa y) do this, others use a lot of their own
parts, which can make the machine a real pain to upgrade. An example
is an olivetti I worked on recently - it had no motherboard as such,
just a backplate and a CPU riser card. THe board was designed to fit
into the special slimline case - and there was very little room to
add gear (I was installing a CD-ROM drive). You have been warned!

Hope this helps



Gareth

In the interest of balance:

I did some work on a Time PC, a while back, and needed some new drivers
to complete an upgrade. (It was a Blue Frightening...:-)

Time's support line was easy to reach, helpful, recognised the problem
immediately and shipped new drivers out to me right away, at no cost.

I may just be *the* lucky one, of course...
-- 


regards,
Ianp

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian Preece                                           ianp@darktower.com
I.T. Project Specialist                      ianp@darktower.demon.co.uk
                                              http://www.darktower.com/
"Shh! Be vewy, vewy qwiet!  I'm hunting wuntime ewwors."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <01bbd60c$4e33f480$0320989e@netex.demon.co.uk>, Innes
Borkwood <innes@netex.demon.co.uk> writes
>I would not like to make any derogatory comments about specific companies,
>so from my experience I would suggest that your friend, as a new user,
>might buy his PC from Dan or Gateway, for example. These companies are
>geared up, and happy to support inexperienced users.
>
>Some Direct suppliers not mentioned above, in my experience, often seem to
>have trouble with delivery dates and answering technical support lines.
>
>You may be interested to know that Time are part of a group called
>Granville. They advertise under several other names which I think may
>include Colossus, MJN, MR PC and others. Often their address is 'Granville
>House' in Burnley, but not always!
>
>Note that in addition to the cost of the machine, your friend should
>consider how good the technical support and after sales service is. It may
>be worth paying a few extra pounds. For example, Gateway has a free phone
>number for pre and post sales and technical support.
>
>Also note that the software bundles offered with many PCs are often old
>versions that can be purchased very cheaply as separate items. When a
>company advertises that their bundle is worth �500 when sold separately,
>you may find that this is true...... at last year's prices. In addition,
>you may find that manuals and discs are not supplied. The 'educational'
>packages given away with PCs are, from my experience, of little value. I
>would recommend going for a mainstream bundle such as the Microsoft Office
>or similar.
>
>Please note that the above information is correct to the best of my
>knowledge is drawn from *personal* experience.
<snip>

To add my bit to this, one of my managers at work has just got a pc from
MJN. The sound card was not configured properly and the CD rom drive was
not setup to work from DOS. A real pain when a couple of the freebie
cd's they supplied with a load of shareware on, would only run from DOS. 

Did I hear an echo in the backgroud of you gets what you pay for :-)

-- 
Philip Martin   ----------------------------------------------------------------
Royal Quays             If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit: 
North Shields.          no use being a damn fool about it !
                                                        W.C. Fields
email philip@philmart.demon.co.uk

"Innes Borkwood" <innes@netex.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Note that in addition to the cost of the machine, your friend should
>consider how good the technical support and after sales service is. It may
>be worth paying a few extra pounds. For example, Gateway has a free phone
>number for pre and post sales and technical support.

Both my boss and parents have recently purchased machines from Gateway
based on my recommendations.  Although there's been no need to test
the highly regarded support, both machines arrived within ten working
days and in the credit card was not debited until the day of despatch.

The machines are well specified (P133, 16MB, 2GB HDD, 8xCDROM, 16bit
sound card, speakers, 15" monitor), came with a good collection of
pre-installed software (though CDs are included), well built from top
class components, worked first time and performed beautifully.

The P133/Mulitmedia cost �1149+VAT, but they do a similar model
without the Sound card and slightly smaller HD for �1049+VAT.

I work in IT and have seen numerous machines over the years including
some big names such as IBM, Compaq, HP, AST and Olivetti.  I'd say
Gateway was *at*least* as good any of them.  A remarkable achievement
given the price.
Cheers,
       >iv< Paul >iv<

<A HREF="mailto:paul@wall.demon.co.uk">
<A HREF="mailto:Paul.Hopwood@chmsp1po.courtaulds.sprint.com">
<A HREF="http://www.wall.demon.co.uk/paul">
[  Coz in space no-one can eat ice cream. ] 

In article <qprnqAAbBHkyEwGd@leofric.demon.co.uk>,
	Sam Sexton <Sam@leofric.demon.co.uk> writes:

My brother bought a P75 PC from Time and had one disaster after another;
broken monitor leads; hanging software, and now one of the SIMS is knack'ed.

They supplied a shareware disk that crashed Win95 every time he tried to
install something, with that old favourite "Cannot find COM32***.dll!".

In my personal opinion he got a very poor package from Time. He may have been
unlucky to receive such a broken PC, but their aftersales service was nothing
short of diabolical.

I've had good experiences with Dell, Express Micros, and Evesham Micros.

Good luck!

Carl.
-- 
=============================================================================
 Dr C P Parry, Advanced Semiconductors              Tel: 010 +44 1203 523903
 Dept of Physics COVENTRY CV4 7AL, UK.              phsar@csv.warwick.ac.uk
=============================================================================

Gonzo wrote:
> 
> 
> Technically the system was wierd. Although the system had 8Mb of Ram,
> the video card was on the motherboard and used 1Mb of it, so in effect
> you only had 7Mb to use for your programs. Time made no mention of the
> amount of video Ram in their adverts. It's a good idea to ask them
> before you order. The graphic were pretty slow as well.
> 
> It may be �200 cheaper, but I guess you get what you pay for.

Yes, I've heard that there are now systems with on-board video which
doesn't have it's own DRAM, but instead uses your main sytem memory. 
The review of it I saw came down it on it, because not only do you loose
1 or 2 Megs RAM, but, you also loose some overall system performance as
well.  It was recommended to avoid it.  As for cost saving, does it? 
Here in Canada, I can add another Meg of DRAM (60ns) to my S3 Trio64V+
card for under $20;  I doubt giving up the video RAM saves much coin,
unless of course you are using very fast VRAM.  It all sounds kind of
flakey...

Regards,  Geoff.

In article <848490298.17766.0@ibis.demon.co.uk>, Gareth Jones
<gareth@ibis.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>My advice would be to steer clear of the big operators, and find a
>small computer shop or dealer near where you live (if you happen to be
>within about 30 miles of Chippenham give me a call!). You will usually
>get a better performance to price ratio from such a dealer, and almost
>always better service.

<snip>

I completely agree with you from years of experience. However some
understand what they are doing (total best service possible) and others
just know how to wield a screwdriver (ooh er, well they try).

It's not easy to sort between them if you don't know anything about
computers. It's also hard to find a good one for a friend or relative
who lives some distance away. I have a cousin in Hastings right now who
has a spec, and is having trouble finding the right local(ish) supplier,
for example.

Hmm, fair bit of crossposting here. Anyone able to source a cheap 486 5V
to 3V adaptor??

-- 
'Oz     "Is it is better to seem ignorant and learn, 
          or seem wise and stay ignorant?"

Gonzo wrote:
> 
> Sam Sexton <Sam@leofric.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> >A friend of mine is about to buy his first PC, mainly for his young
> >daughter's edutainment purposes. We pored over various ads in PC Shopper
> >over the weekend, with my steering him towards a Dan system, based on
> >Dan's reputation for reliability and service. However, there was an ad
> >for Time systems in the Independent that had a similar configuration for
> >about GBP1000 rather than 1200. I've no experience of Time and so would
> >appreciate news of any bouquets or brickbats regarding their systems and
> >service.
> 
> >For the record, we're looking at something like: 133MHz, 1.2GB hdd,
> >8x CDROM, 14-15" monitor and sound in the region of a grand (pounds), so
> >if you're particularly impressed (or otherwise!) with a similar system,
> >please let me know.
> 
> >Thanks in advance - email replies would be appreciated.
> >--
> >Sam Sexton                                           (+44|0)1203 256562
> >Reuters Ltd
> >Coventry, UK
> 
> A friend of mine bought a computer from Time. It took 6 weeks to
> arrive, although his credit card was debitted the day he ordered it.
> When it finally arrived there was no monitor with it. The monitor
> arrived a week later, but was broken. When a new monitor finally
> arrived the system initially worked, but when he bought a printer and
> plugged it in the picture went off. When he unplugged the printer lead
> the picture came back on.
>
><snip> 
>
> Technically the system was wierd. Although the system had 8Mb of Ram,
> the video card was on the motherboard and used 1Mb of it, so in effect
> you only had 7Mb to use for your programs. Time made no mention of the
> amount of video Ram in their adverts. It's a good idea to ask them
> before you order. The graphic were pretty slow as well.
> 
> It may be �200 cheaper, but I guess you get what you pay for.


The giveaway here is in their adverts is says something to the effect of 
- 1Mb video RAM switchable to 2Mb for increased resolution/colours. 

I believe they use the VX chipset that allows a video adapter to share 
system memory, from what I understand this is a cheap and slow way of 
doing it - one way of helping to cut the price by the �200 quoted above.

My advice would be to avoid TIME after reading about the lousy after 
sales service in Which magazine- apparently the local trading standards 
are investigating claims from customers.

Jez