🚀 go-pugleaf

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:43:31 +1100, Chris Bitmead <ChrisB@ThePla.net>
wrote:

>I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I  want to
>run, amoungst other things, Linux.
>Which brand has the best hardware support by Linux?

X Windows is the component that has the most frequent hardware
incompatibilites.  XFree86, at http://www.xfree86.org, is the free
one.  There's another, commercial [$100], X server that might support
video cards XF86 doesn't - it's called Accelerated X and is at
http://www.xig.com.

>I guess that means the video display, sound, PCMCIA and what else to
>worry about???

Check out the Hardware Compatibility HOWTO.  You can link to it from
the HOWTO Index, which you'll want to bookmark anyhow.  It's at
http://sunsite.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX-3.html

I've moved followups to only comp.os.linux.hardware.

Cheers,

Troy Davis
Black Cat Communications
http://www.blackcat.net
Seattle, WA USA

In article <34ED4233.3507994D@ThePla.net>, Chris Bitmead wrote:
>I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I  want to
>run, amoungst other things, Linux.
>
>Which brand has the best hardware support by Linux?

While it's tough to point out a specific brand, there are a few
things to avoid.
>
>I guess that means the video display, 

The most significant problem is the NeoMagic Chipset which is common in the
most recent batch of laptops. NeoMagic refuses to make information necessary
to write a driver for Xfree available.

One of the commercial X servers does support the NeoMagic. 
I think it costs about $100.

This problem is a pain, since the use of the Neomagic chipset is not
universal across product lines. For example, some IBM thinkpads use
Neomagic; others don't. Caveat emptor.


>sound, 

This can be a problem. Check out OSS/Free and OSS/Linux
to see what's supported either for free for for $.

>PCMCIA 

PCMCIA is not a problem. In fact, for most "normal" cards (SCSI, modem,
ethernet) linux works far better than windows. After intstalling the PCMCIA
package, all you need to do is insert the card. Most of these devices are
automatically recognized. 

You can also get fancy, like using a different network address depending
on which network card is used, or which slot in which it is inserted.

You can also define "schemes", like "home" and "work" which will alter
your configuration.

The PCMCIA HOWTO will give you a list of supported devices. There are a
few that should be avoided.

>and what else to
>worry about???
>

Built in modems. Often, these are of the stupid "winmodem" variety.

Thus, you may end up having to ignore a built in modem and use
a PCMCIA card.


>Good Linux support is my highest priority, and I want to get it right.

If you do your homework, you shouldn't have a problem.

>
>-- 
>Chris Bitmead
>http://www.thepla.net/~chrisb


-- 
| Michael Iverson                             (Iverson.8@osu.edu) |
| University Technology Services, the Ohio State University       |
| Department of Electrical Engineering, the Ohio State University |
| http://frith.acs.ohio-state.edu/~ivy/                           |

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:43:31 +1100, Chris Bitmead <ChrisB@ThePla.net> wrote:
>I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I  want to
>run, amoungst other things, Linux.
>Which brand has the best hardware support by Linux?
>I guess that means the video display, sound, PCMCIA and what else to
>worry about???
>Good Linux support is my highest priority, and I want to get it right.

At this time, the Hitachi series seems to offer good compatibility and
value.  See www.hitachipc.com and the Linux on Laptops web page.  The
Winbook XL 233 has a supported C&T graphics chipset; but I've read that the
266 has a Neomagic, which you should definitely avoid; don't get a modem
from Winbook either, they sell WinModems.  Most Toshibas seem to be
supported, and they have a broad user base.

Since you can't usually get useful info on the PCMCIA controller or the
modem from the vendor, you should search dejanews once you have a particular
model in mind.  Graphics chipset is a good first filter for your search.

Good luck,

Drew  dg20@cornell.edu

os2user@sapan.msc.cornell.edu (Skeeter) writes:

> At this time, the Hitachi series seems to offer good compatibility and
> value.  See www.hitachipc.com and the Linux on Laptops web page.  The

WHAT Linux on Laptops web page?

Frederick Schmidt wrote:
> 
> os2user@sapan.msc.cornell.edu (Skeeter) writes:
> 
> > At this time, the Hitachi series seems to offer good compatibility and
> > value.  See www.hitachipc.com and the Linux on Laptops web page.  The
> 
> WHAT Linux on Laptops web page?


Try http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/#specific_models

- John

Frederick Schmidt <fschmidt@dev9.bfm.com> writes:

> os2user@sapan.msc.cornell.edu (Skeeter) writes:
> 
> > At this time, the Hitachi series seems to offer good compatibility and
> > value.  See www.hitachipc.com and the Linux on Laptops web page.  The

> WHAT Linux on Laptops web page?

Search Yahoo for Linux and Laptop...

  http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/



Steve
dunham@cps.msu.edu

Frederick Schmidt wrote:
> 
> os2user@sapan.msc.cornell.edu (Skeeter) writes:
> 
> > At this time, the Hitachi series seems to offer good compatibility and
> > value.  See www.hitachipc.com and the Linux on Laptops web page.  The
> 
> WHAT Linux on Laptops web page?

The address for Linux On Laptops is:

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/

Hope you find it useful.

-- 
Tom Slider - slider@viis.net
Ridgeview Elementary School
Techonologist / Webmaster
http://www.res.viis.net/
Yucaipa, CA

In comp.os.linux.misc Chris Bitmead <ChrisB@ThePla.net> wrote:
: I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I  want to
: run, amoungst other things, Linux.

: Which brand has the best hardware support by Linux?



Why not try VAResearch? They sell machines specifically outfitted to run
Linux?


===================================
Christian Adamec
University of Wisconsin - Milwuakee
adamec@uwm.edu
===================================

On 20 Feb 1998 13:43:01 -0500, Frederick Schmidt <fschmidt@dev9.bfm.com> wrote:
>WHAT Linux on Laptops web page?

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/

There is a description of the Hitachi 7560 there, among other things.
For the HOWTOs and gen'l hardware compatibility info, one can poke around
www.redhat.com, www.linux.org, & friends.

On 20 Feb 1998 13:43:01 -0500, Frederick Schmidt <fschmidt@dev9.bfm.com> wrote:
>os2user@sapan.msc.cornell.edu (Skeeter) writes:
>
>> At this time, the Hitachi series seems to offer good compatibility and
>> value.  See www.hitachipc.com and the Linux on Laptops web page.  The
>
>WHAT Linux on Laptops web page?

<URL:http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/> perhaps?

Hope so,
         Josh

-- 
   O<      ( (      [ Josh Fishman      GPL DNA NOW! ]
 _NH >=O    ) )     [  <mailto:jmf9936@is4.nyu.edu>  ]
<_>-<_   + :::::-.  [ Linux:                         ]
 HCl<O>     :::`-'  [  hex, bugs, flock() and poll() ]

Hello

This is one of the neat things in life.

If you are intrested in a New Computer or Notebook with "the best" pc Linux
already
installed for you on any of these system.  Oh the Linux that is installed is
DEBIAN.

Check out:

http://www.varesearch.com/

VA Research Linux

PII 333 Desktops are available with Linux already on them. ;)
Must mean whatever comes with it WILL WORK with them

A 266 Notebook is available with Linux already installed :P~ smoken <g>

Check it out man!

Oh Debian Linux site is http://www.us.debian.org/
I use SuSE 5.1 on my desktop but my notebook uses Debian.

---
Steven Udell
hettar@teleport.com

>>I guess that means the video display, 
>
>The most significant problem is the NeoMagic Chipset which is common in the
>most recent batch of laptops. NeoMagic refuses to make information necessary
>to write a driver for Xfree available.
>
>One of the commercial X servers does support the NeoMagic. 
>I think it costs about $100.

The only support for it is Accelerated X Laptop Server and it has an
MSRP of $199.

>This problem is a pain, since the use of the Neomagic chipset is not
>universal across product lines. For example, some IBM thinkpads use
>Neomagic; others don't. Caveat emptor.

The Digital HiNote VP series all have the NeoMagic.  Aside from that
minor "problem" they are GREAT machines.  I'm using Accel X on mine...
the only problem with it is that I can't drive an external monitor
at 1024 at greater than 60hz.  The server is *supposed* to do it, but
it just won't.  I've got a support query into XiG and they are supposedly
working on it, but it has been a couple weeks now.


--Donnie

--
 Donnie Barnes    http://www.redhat.com/~djb    djb@redhat.com   "Bah."
   Challenge Diversity.  Ignore People.  Live Life.  Use Linux.  879.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
_Things You'd NEVER Expect A Southerner To Say_ by Vic Henley:     
**  I don't want a flannel shirt for Christmas.

For what it is worth, I am running Linux very successfully on a
Toshiba 430CDS with 16Mb RAM and 1.2Gb HDD (ie, bog standard machine).
I have Windows95 in one partition and then Linux spread over a number
of others, including a 16Mb swap partition.
The chipset is C&T 65545 (I think) and is supported by X86SVGA (or
whatever it is called) I did have to fiddle with the modelines a bit
to get X to work but it is now OK with 800x600x16.  The only problem I
have with X is with some of the keyboard mappings and I a convinced
that is to do with my X config and not to do with the machine.
My netcard is a 3Com PCMCIA (I understand that the Xircom netcard is a
no-go due to propriatery info or something meaning there are not Linux
drivers) and my modem is a Xircom 28k.
Sound is fine and I can play CDs OK.
I haven't tried using the IR printer port, nor the expansion port.
All in all I am very satified with the Toshiba as a Linux platform as
well as a Win95 platform.
The CDS screen is the passive screen, you will need the CDT screen if
you want better visuals.

Howard.


In this newsgroup, Chris Bitmead <ChrisB@ThePla.net> wrote:


>I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I  want to
>run, amoungst other things, Linux.

>Which brand has the best hardware support by Linux?

>I guess that means the video display, sound, PCMCIA and what else to
>worry about???

>Good Linux support is my highest priority, and I want to get it right.

>-- 
>Chris Bitmead
>http://www.thepla.net/~chrisb

These are my opinions.  Today's price, to you, is AUS$0.02      |
Howard F Lowndes mailto:lannet@albury.net.au ICQ:3398299       _|_
LANNet Computing Associates http://albury.net.au/~lannet    __|---|__
PGPkey http://albury.net.au/~lowndes/hfl_pubk.asc  ___________|_$_|___________
PGPkeycheck 09A25BEA 8D3B2793 519E3DD2 72782532              /  |  \   VH-MDL
A Grumman Yankee is a F14 Tomcat on Jenny Craig             O   O   O

On 20 Feb 1998 13:43:01 -0500, Frederick Schmidt
<fschmidt@dev9.bfm.com> wrote:

>WHAT Linux on Laptops web page?

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/

Cheers,

Troy Davis
Black Cat Communications
http://www.blackcat.net
Seattle, WA USA

Brett Viren <bviren@superk.physics.sunysb.edu> writes:

> But just don't buy laptops with NeoMagic chips until they release
> programming info. Supporting NeoMagic is sort of like getting a Linux
> distribution sold by MicroSoft. 

Yes, I felt this way, but then suddenly I needed to have a Thinkpad
560X.  I mean, what can you do?  The best is the best...
-- 
David Fox	   http://www.cat.nyu.edu/fox		xoF divaD
NYU Media Research Lab   fox@cat.nyu.edu   baL hcraeseR aideM UYN

The only problem with the Linux laptops web page, is that it is usually
a bit behind.

I'm thinking of a Gateway, but the sound is what I'm most worried about
here. It seems to say somewhere that it sort-of works.

Anybody with experience here?

-- 
Chris Bitmead
http://www.thepla.net/~chrisb

In article <34ED4233.3507994D@thepla.net>,
	Chris Bitmead <ChrisB@ThePla.net> writes:

> I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I want
> to run, amoungst other things, Linux.

buying from www.varesearch.com  might be a good idea.

How well does sound work on the GATEWAY 9100 LAPTOP ?

Does Doom sound work ok for example?

-- 
Chris Bitmead
http://www.thepla.net/~chrisb

On 20 Feb 1998 20:28:27 GMT, adamec@nospam.uwm.edu
<adamec@nospam.uwm.edu> wrote: 
>In comp.os.linux.misc Chris Bitmead <ChrisB@ThePla.net> wrote:
>: I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I  want to
>: run, amoungst other things, Linux.
>
>: Which brand has the best hardware support by Linux?
>
>Why not try VAResearch? They sell machines specifically outfitted to run
>Linux?

Or Promox, or SWT, just to name a couple of other VARS that sell Linux
systems (including laptops). 

There are quite a lot of Linux system vendors these days; see
<http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/linux.html"> for a pretty exhaustive list.

The Linux VAR HOWTO at
<http://www.redhat.com/linux-info/ldp/HOWTO/VAR-HOWTO.html> has a
similar (but smaller) list of potential vendors to choose from. 

A Linux system vendor will have already researched the issues and would
probably provide out-of-the-packing-box an already-running XFree86
installation. 
-- 
"And 1.1.81 is officially BugFree(tm), so if you receive any bug 
reports on it, you know they are just evil lies." (By Linus Torvalds)
cbbrowne@hex.net -  <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>

On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:40:39 GMT, throopw@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:

>I'm aware of the Libretto models, and the PC110, and others in the
>very-very-small-notebook or borderline-palmtop category.  But
>appropriate models of those aren't totally satsifying to my
>overcritical eye, so I'm wondering about alternatives. 

How come?  I had RedHat 4.2 running problem free on my 110, and I'm a real
newbee. EVERYTHING worked as advertized - see http://toy.cabi.net for a few
good starting links. (Ok, there was a problem, it didn't like the 15MB
miniflash on which I had WFW311, it gave me all kinds of "time out" and "drive
not ready" errors. I guess the problems could have been fixed, but as I said,
I am a real newbee.)

>Especially interesting is the "IP docking" question.  Any experience
>with PC110 or Libretto used remotely as a highly portable plug-in
>computing brick from an X terminal would be of interest to me. 

Have a look at the links from the URL above. You'll see someone had the 110
"NFS root" through a radio LAN card.

Chris Bitmead wrote:
> 
> I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I  want to
> run, amoungst other things, Linux.

Hi. I have an NEC VERSA 6000H and it works like charm
(800x600 @16bpp ), soundcard working out of the box, etc. 

The NEC VERSA 6xxx tend to receive good reports, though it
depends a lot on the model number. Apparently, VAResearch
use these. If you really are willing to spend something on
it, VA Research are a good place to look for the high-end
stuff. 

There's a page which has some info :

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/

the canonical info source about linux&laptops. There's some
volunteer support database, 

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/volunteer.html

where you can check for a model of laptop and contact
some-one who owns that model and ask them questions about
how well linux runs on it. I did this prior to buying mine.

The places that sell (linux-loaded) laptops that I know of
are:

<A HREF="http://www.varesearch.com">	VA Research </A>
<A HREF="http://www.swt.com">   	SWT Computing </A>

And I think

< A HREF="http://www.promox.com">	Promox </A>



> Good Linux support is my highest priority, and I want to get it right.


If that's the case, consider getting a laptop with linux
pre-loaded.

-- Donovan


_____________________________________________________

Donovan Rebbechi, Lord of the Elves, 
Dept of Mathematics, Rutgers University Newark

Visit my webpage: http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord
*****************************************************

Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> 
> Chris Bitmead wrote:
> >
> > I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I  want to
> > run, amoungst other things, Linux.
> 
> Hi. I have an NEC VERSA 6000H and it works like charm
> (800x600 @16bpp ), soundcard working out of the box, etc.
> 
> The NEC VERSA 6xxx tend to receive good reports, though it
> depends a lot on the model number. Apparently, VAResearch
> use these. If you really are willing to spend something on
> it, VA Research are a good place to look for the high-end
> stuff.

The latest and greatest NEC 6260 266 appears to have a Neomagic video
card. Arrgg! Can anyone confirm? I got  this info from a magazine
review.

As for VAResearch, I am in Australia, which is inconvenient (I think),
but in any case their web site says they distribute the Xi X driver with
the machine, which makes me think they must use Neomagic! Arggh!


> > Good Linux support is my highest priority, and I want to get it right.
> 
> If that's the case, consider getting a laptop with linux
> pre-loaded.

I'm in Australia, and I don't think that is available here.

-- 
Chris Bitmead
http://www.thepla.net/~chrisb

Chris Bitmead (ChrisB@ThePla.net) wrote:
: I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I  want to
: run, amoungst other things, Linux.

: Which brand has the best hardware support by Linux?

VA Research (www.varesearch.com) uses an NEC laptop of some description for
the Linux laptops they sell.  Perhaps you can get some tips from their page.

Kurt

Frederick Schmidt (fschmidt@dev9.bfm.com) wrote:
: os2user@sapan.msc.cornell.edu (Skeeter) writes:

: > At this time, the Hitachi series seems to offer good compatibility and
: > value.  See www.hitachipc.com and the Linux on Laptops web page.  The

: WHAT Linux on Laptops web page?

The one at http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/

Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> 
> Chris Bitmead wrote:
> >
> > I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I  want to
> > run, amoungst other things, Linux.
> 
> Hi. I have an NEC VERSA 6000H and it works like charm
> (800x600 @16bpp ), soundcard working out of the box, etc.
> 
> The NEC VERSA 6xxx tend to receive good reports, though it
> depends a lot on the model number. Apparently, VAResearch
> use these. If you really are willing to spend something on
> it, VA Research are a good place to look for the high-end
> stuff.

Yeh, but according to
http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/firstlooks/9801/f980112a11.htm
the latest NECs use Neomagic 128XD graphics subsystem.

And I see that VAResearch says they supply you with Xi server included
(Why do that unless they are using  Neomagic?).

That tends to indicate to me that NEC and VAResearch have both gone over
to Neomagic, and are therefore out of the running.

> > Good Linux support is my highest priority, and I want to get it right.
> 
> If that's the case, consider getting a laptop with linux
> pre-loaded.

I feel that could be a bad idea, because then I don't know what hacks
they've done to get it to work, like proprietry X servers.

-- 
Chris Bitmead
http://www.thepla.net/~chrisb

Kurt Wall wrote:
> 
> Chris Bitmead (ChrisB@ThePla.net) wrote:
> : I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I  want to
> : run, amoungst other things, Linux.
> 
> : Which brand has the best hardware support by Linux?
>

I have just bought a n ACER 390CX, sort of midrange 800x600n tft
P133 MMX etc. runs linux slackware 3.4 like a charm. X took a 
little setting up but now works fine. But I can't get the sound
card recognised. Apart from that -  a great little machine.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:43:31 +1100, Chris Bitmead <ChrisB@ThePla.net> wrote:

>Good Linux support is my highest priority, and I want to get it right.

FWIW, I just spent a month researching just this question.  I am a
Security Analyst/Systems Engineer, and Linux is an important part
of our Corporate network.  As such, I needed a powerful laptop that
supported Linux, including X-Windows.  The decision came down to
Either the Toshiba Tecra or WedgeTech ShowBook.  The latter is a small
company that has been in business for a while and has gotten some good
reviews in spite of the fact that they are not well known.  We are
getting the WedgeTech, since it is at least 20% cheaper for the power
than most of the other notebooks I looked at.  Wedge Technologies'
people were *very* helpful as far as hardware specifications, including
chipsets.  Most other companies I had to wade through several levels of
support personnel before I could find the necessary information.

I will be receiving the system shortly, and I'd be glad to report
back to the group on installation and performance of RedHat Linux
on it, as well as general construction quality.

Basic specs:  Pentium 233 w/MMX, 14.1" XVGA screen (!), integrated
              sound, video capabilities, 128M memory, 3.1G hard
              drive;  PCMCIA cards for Ethernet, SCSI, and 56K
              USR Modem, plus port replicator, all for less than
              $4200!!!  (Toshiba P133 with similar hardware was
              well ver $5000)

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Subhas Roy wrote:
> 
> In article <34ED4233.3507994D@thepla.net>,
>         Chris Bitmead <ChrisB@ThePla.net> writes:
> 
> > I'm thinking of buying a laptop (fairly high end), on which I want
> > to run, amoungst other things, Linux.
> 
> buying from www.varesearch.com  might be a good idea.

Yes and no....

Some notebooks like the Hitachi Visionbook Pro install Linux
so painlessly, that the extra overhead (usually paying a price
which is close to retail) makes the commercial installations
somewhat pricey (to the order of $500 - $1000 more than doing
it yourself....alot to pay for Linux).

Regards,
Chris

-- 
========================================================================
Chris Cox (cjcox@acm.org)               http://www.beasys.com/
North Texas Linux Users Group           http://www.ntlug.org/
Tcl Dallas                              http://www.tcltk.com/TclDallas/
ACM                                     http://www.acm.org/

Chris Bitmead wrote:
> 
> T
> > >How well does sound work on the GATEWAY 9100 LAPTOP ?
> > >Does Doom sound work ok for example?
> >
> > Check the HOWTO Index at
> > http://sunsite.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX-3.html .  From there,
> > link to the Hardware Compatibility HOWTO.  Then link to Laptops, and
> > from that page to the Linux Laptops Homepage.  Finally, scroll down a
> > couple screens to the Gateway 2000 Solo 9100.  Click.
> >
> > It even mentions sound as of 2/9/98. :)
> >
> > I trimmed followups to comp.os.linux.hardware.
> 
> Yeah, yeah, I read that. What I'm after is something a bit more specific
> than "it sorta works". I know it says slightly more than that, but I'm
> trolling for more user experiences and specifics.
> 
> How does doom sound, just as an example? Should I avoid the Gateway in
> favour of something else based on sound? These are the questions I'm
> wanting answers for.
> 
> --
> Chris Bitmead
> http://www.thepla.net/~chrisb

Again, the Visionbook Pro has good soundblaster 16 support.
Doom sound, Quake II sound, xmame...

-- 
========================================================================
Chris Cox (cjcox@acm.org)               http://www.beasys.com/
North Texas Linux Users Group           http://www.ntlug.org/
Tcl Dallas                              http://www.tcltk.com/TclDallas/
ACM                                     http://www.acm.org/

Wayne Throop wrote:
> 
> I've seen the "Best LAPTOP to buy for Linux?" thread, which provokes me
> to ask the tangentially related question, what's the SMALLEST easily
> available laptop to by for Linux.
> 

[snip]

> 
> Especially interesting is the "IP docking" question.  Any experience
> with PC110 or Libretto used remotely as a highly portable plug-in
> computing brick from an X terminal would be of interest to me.

Grant Taylor has a web page describing his use of a Libretto and a
cellular
packet data modem at http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/
-- 
      The opinions expressed in this message are my personal
      opinion and in no way reflect the views of my employer.
 Soren Kierkegaard says
 "Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."

Richard Pinkall-Pollei wrote:

Since I live in Australia, and WedgeTech is out of the question, can you
tell me anything you discovered about the Toshiba Tecra Hardware?

> FWIW, I just spent a month researching just this question.  I am a
> Security Analyst/Systems Engineer, and Linux is an important part
> of our Corporate network.  As such, I needed a powerful laptop that
> supported Linux, including X-Windows.  The decision came down to
> Either the Toshiba Tecra or WedgeTech ShowBook.  The latter is a small
> company that has been in business for a while and has gotten some good
> reviews in spite of the fact that they are not well known.  We are
> getting the WedgeTech, since it is at least 20% cheaper for the power
> than most of the other notebooks I looked at.  Wedge Technologies'
> people were *very* helpful as far as hardware specifications, including
> chipsets.  Most other companies I had to wade through several levels of
> support personnel before I could find the necessary information.


-- 
Chris Bitmead
http://www.thepla.net/~chrisb

Here are two web sites you might want to check:

http://www.linux.org.uk/ELKS-Home/index.html
http://ryeham.ee.ryerson.ca/uClinux/


throopw@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:

>I've seen the "Best LAPTOP to buy for Linux?" thread, which provokes me
>to ask the tangentially related question, what's the SMALLEST easily
>available laptop to by for Linux. 
>
>I'm aware of the Libretto models, and the PC110, and others in the
>very-very-small-notebook or borderline-palmtop category.  But
>appropriate models of those aren't totally satsifying to my
>overcritical eye, so I'm wondering about alternatives. 
>
>I saw a Windoze CE palmtop advertised with possible 16Mb memory, and
>J.Random Accessories, but I presume a linux port to one of those would
>be unlikely (since many of them use exotic CPUs). 
>
>So.  What have people accomplished in the "small, small linux world"
>arena?  Anybody got linux running on a sub-kilobuck palmtop (even if
>without X), with an IP-networking solution (ppp, ethernet, whatever) for
>"docking"? If not, what comes close?
>
>Especially interesting is the "IP docking" question.  Any experience
>with PC110 or Libretto used remotely as a highly portable plug-in
>computing brick from an X terminal would be of interest to me. 
>
>(Or is this an old and boring question, for which there is a FAQ I missed?)
>--
>Wayne Throop   throopw@sheol.org   http://sheol.org/throopw




Greg Koch
remove the spam deflector
g<remove>koch@usa.net

I doth belive that Panasonic is coming out with a new Palmtop for you.  It
has a good Pentium processor (133 or above, I forget).  Color screen. 
Touch screen.  It looks just like a color Newton MP2000, but the screen is
bigger.  It looks well designed, and runs WBlows 95, so it should run
Linux.  

me @ my humble abode <sorin@ebij.com> wrote in article
<34efa514.3479863@nnrp.gol.com>...
> On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:40:39 GMT, throopw@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
> 
> >I'm aware of the Libretto models, and the PC110, and others in the
> >very-very-small-notebook or borderline-palmtop category.  But
> >appropriate models of those aren't totally satsifying to my
> >overcritical eye, so I'm wondering about alternatives. 
> 
> How come?  I had RedHat 4.2 running problem free on my 110, and I'm a
real
> newbee. EVERYTHING worked as advertized - see http://toy.cabi.net for a
few
> good starting links. (Ok, there was a problem, it didn't like the 15MB
> miniflash on which I had WFW311, it gave me all kinds of "time out" and
"drive
> not ready" errors. I guess the problems could have been fixed, but as I
said,
> I am a real newbee.)
> 
> >Especially interesting is the "IP docking" question.  Any experience
> >with PC110 or Libretto used remotely as a highly portable plug-in
> >computing brick from an X terminal would be of interest to me. 
> 
> Have a look at the links from the URL above. You'll see someone had the
110
> "NFS root" through a radio LAN card.
> 
> 

Chris Cox wrote:
> 
> 
> Some notebooks like the Hitachi Visionbook Pro install Linux
> so painlessly, that the extra overhead (usually paying a price
> which is close to retail) makes the commercial installations
> somewhat pricey (to the order of $500 - $1000 more than doing
> it yourself....alot to pay for Linux).
> 

Fair point . I think the thing to do
would be look at a few models that 
look promising then see if you can catch
some-one who actually owns one,
through the laptop support database I
mentioned in my prior posting. 
The models that have linux pre-installed
tend to be the more linux
friendly ones (duh !) the NEC VERSAs are
(some of them are...) 
quite good too. It installed on my VERSA
6000H  *** more easily than on
my desktop *** ! 16 bpp @ 800x600 +
Soundcard + everything else straight 
away. 

I would say the thing to do is zero in
on a few models 
(use the linux laptop page for info).
I'd start with the NEC Versa, 
Hitachi Visionbook, Fujitsu lifebook
(reportedly some models of this are
quite good)
and possibly some IBM thinkpad models
 and see what the vendors are
installing.
Then contact some people who own them. 

-- Donovan

-- 
_____________________________________________________

Donovan Rebbechi, Lord of the Elves, 
Dept of Mathematics, Rutgers University
Newark

Visit my webpage:
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord
*****************************************************

On 20 Feb 1998 16:54:43 GMT, Skeeter <os2user@sapan.msc.cornell.edu> wrote:
| At this time, the Hitachi series seems to offer good compatibility and
| value.  See www.hitachipc.com and the Linux on Laptops web page.  The
| Winbook XL 233 has a supported C&T graphics chipset; but I've read that the
| 266 has a Neomagic, which you should definitely avoid; don't get a modem
| from Winbook either, they sell WinModems.  Most Toshibas seem to be
| supported, and they have a broad user base.

I just gave the Winbook folks a call, and they said that the 266 had the
C&T chipset, *not* Neomagic.  Got this from "Molly" there.

 -Scott Hutton, Indiana University Computer Security Office
  PGP key available:  finger shutton@pobox.com ...or...
                      https://www.ucso.iu.edu/staff/shutton/

throopw@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) writes:

>I've seen the "Best LAPTOP to buy for Linux?" thread, which provokes me
>to ask the tangentially related question, what's the SMALLEST easily
>available laptop to by for Linux. 

I have just heard a rumour that some form of Linux has been ported to the
palm pilot.

Porting it to the Newton may also be psooible as it has already been ported
to the arm processor - I think this has been discussed here earlier.

Martin.

In <mbk.888475567@octarine> mbk@octarine.adfa.oz.au (Martin Kuchlmayer) writes:

>I have just heard a rumour that some form of Linux has been ported to the
>palm pilot.

Yep, it prints AAAAAAABBBBBBBBB etc... I'd guess there's a lot of work to
do yet before it's ready for run-of-the-mill use.

Nick.
-- 
Zeta Internet                           Fax: +61-2-9233-6545 Voice: 9231-9400
G.P.O. Box 3400, Sydney NSW 1043        http://www.zeta.org.au/

In article <slrn6f8v40.ssa.shutton@habanero.ucs.indiana.edu>,
Scott Hutton <shutton@pobox.com> wrote:
>On 20 Feb 1998 16:54:43 GMT, Skeeter <os2user@sapan.msc.cornell.edu> wrote:
>| At this time, the Hitachi series seems to offer good compatibility and
>| value.  See www.hitachipc.com and the Linux on Laptops web page.  The
>| Winbook XL 233 has a supported C&T graphics chipset; but I've read that the
>| 266 has a Neomagic, which you should definitely avoid; don't get a modem
>| from Winbook either, they sell WinModems.  Most Toshibas seem to be
>| supported, and they have a broad user base.
>
>I just gave the Winbook folks a call, and they said that the 266 had the
>C&T chipset, *not* Neomagic.  Got this from "Molly" there.

I'm using a Winbook XL 233 at the moment, and it does an execellent job.
However, I'm fighting some apparent hardware problems: the floppy drive
doesn't work consistently from Linux, and the screen has just started
freaking out.

One other note for the PCMCIA folks: don't get an EigerCom 28.8 modem. It
(astoundingly) doesn't work properly under Linux,
-- 
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com)

In article <6d3d00$jfo$1@gidora.zeta.org.au>,
Nick Andrew <nick@zeta.org.au> wrote:
>In <mbk.888475567@octarine> mbk@octarine.adfa.oz.au (Martin Kuchlmayer) writes:
>
>>I have just heard a rumour that some form of Linux has been ported to the
>>palm pilot.
>
>Yep, it prints AAAAAAABBBBBBBBB etc... I'd guess there's a lot of work to
>do yet before it's ready for run-of-the-mill use.

FYI, we're up to dumping out a file from RAM, while printing 'E's and 'P's.
:-)

Seriously, the PalmPilot stuff is not expected to be a genuinely useful
platform for Linux (though what use folks will actually make of it, I cannot
say.)

Something like the Libretto -- but with better hardware support, would be
really nice.

-- 
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com)

I'd like to have a Linux box at home and have a handheld gateway
device, such as a PalmPilot, that could get me to a shell over the
net. I'm a big fan of the NC concept, as long as I get to run my own
server and caching is used wherever possible to maintain the illusion
that the network is more reliable than it really is. I want every
device I own to be a gateway into my primary machine.

__Glen Perkins__
gperkins@x.com where x=netcom


On 27 Feb 1998 17:55:00 -0500, kjahds@kjahds.com (Kenneth Albanowski)
wrote:

>In article <6d3d00$jfo$1@gidora.zeta.org.au>,
>Nick Andrew <nick@zeta.org.au> wrote:
>>In <mbk.888475567@octarine> mbk@octarine.adfa.oz.au (Martin Kuchlmayer) writes:
>>
>>>I have just heard a rumour that some form of Linux has been ported to the
>>>palm pilot.
>>
>>Yep, it prints AAAAAAABBBBBBBBB etc... I'd guess there's a lot of work to
>>do yet before it's ready for run-of-the-mill use.
>
>FYI, we're up to dumping out a file from RAM, while printing 'E's and 'P's.
>:-)
>
>Seriously, the PalmPilot stuff is not expected to be a genuinely useful
>platform for Linux (though what use folks will actually make of it, I cannot
>say.)
>
>Something like the Libretto -- but with better hardware support, would be
>really nice.
>
>-- 
>Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com)

In article <34f90bcf.23910830@news.wco.com>, me@SeeSigForRealAddress.com says:
>
>I'd like to have a Linux box at home and have a handheld gateway
>device, such as a PalmPilot, that could get me to a shell over the
>net. I'm a big fan of the NC concept, as long as I get to run my own
>server and caching is used wherever possible to maintain the illusion
>that the network is more reliable than it really is. I want every
>device I own to be a gateway into my primary machine.

I have some wild ideas on building a handheld machine for Linux and
market it. Let's see if it ever materializes.

Keld Simonsen

No question....


IBM PC110....

http://toy.cabi.net/
http://swan.ml.org/pc110/


Kenneth Albanowski wrote:

> In article <6d3d00$jfo$1@gidora.zeta.org.au>,
> Nick Andrew <nick@zeta.org.au> wrote:
> >In <mbk.888475567@octarine> mbk@octarine.adfa.oz.au (Martin Kuchlmayer) writes:
> >
> >>I have just heard a rumour that some form of Linux has been ported to the
> >>palm pilot.
> >
> >Yep, it prints AAAAAAABBBBBBBBB etc... I'd guess there's a lot of work to
> >do yet before it's ready for run-of-the-mill use.
>
> FYI, we're up to dumping out a file from RAM, while printing 'E's and 'P's.
> :-)
>
> Seriously, the PalmPilot stuff is not expected to be a genuinely useful
> platform for Linux (though what use folks will actually make of it, I cannot
> say.)
>
> Something like the Libretto -- but with better hardware support, would be
> really nice.
>
> --
> Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com)

Howard F Lowndes (lannet@albury.net.au) wrote:
: For what it is worth, I am running Linux very successfully on a
: Toshiba 430CDS with 16Mb RAM and 1.2Gb HDD (ie, bog standard machine).
: I have Windows95 in one partition and then Linux spread over a number
: of others, including a 16Mb swap partition.

I have the CDT - it works well as a Linux machine.

: The chipset is C&T 65545 (I think) and is supported by X86SVGA (or
: whatever it is called) I did have to fiddle with the modelines a bit
: to get X to work but it is now OK with 800x600x16.  The only problem I
: have with X is with some of the keyboard mappings and I a convinced
: that is to do with my X config and not to do with the machine.

I originally had some problems with X trashing text mode fonts when it
quit, but the latest X server (with RH 5.0, previously with 4.2) fixed
this.

: My netcard is a 3Com PCMCIA (I understand that the Xircom netcard is a
: no-go due to propriatery info or something meaning there are not Linux
: drivers) and my modem is a Xircom 28k.

The latest pcmcia drivers support several Xircom network cards,
including my combo modem/ethernet card.  (The pcmcia drivers with
RH4.2 didn't support these cards.)

I also have a SCSI PCMCIA adapter (Bustoaster relabled as New Media)
that the system recognizes.

-- 
        Tony Cook - tony@online.tmx.com.au

: > In article <34f90bcf.23910830@news.wco.com>, me@SeeSigForRealAddress.com says:
: > >I'd like to have a Linux box at home and have a handheld gateway
: > >device, such as a PalmPilot, that could get me to a shell over the
: > >net.

I'm aware of two Linux PDA efforts. There's an outfit in the UK
(the Silver Hammer Group, if memory serves) working on a Linux port
for the Palm Pilot, and more generally for processors that don't have
386-like memory management. I think the long-term goal is a Linux
for embedded applications.

The other thing, also a guy in the UK, is the TurboTortoise, described at
http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/tortoise.html
I first came across this page six months or a year ago, and thought,
oh boy, can't wait for this thing to be available. But the web page
hasn't visibly changed since then, so I have no idea if there's any
progress toward marketing the thing. Cool idea though.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Will Ware		email: wware[at]world[dot]std[dot]com
PGP fp (new key 07/15/97) 67683AE2 173FE781 A0D99636 0EAE6117

Keld Simonsen (keld@dkuug.dk) wrote:
> In article <34f90bcf.23910830@news.wco.com>, me@SeeSigForRealAddress.com says:
> >
> >I'd like to have a Linux box at home and have a handheld gateway
> >device, such as a PalmPilot, that could get me to a shell over the
> >net. I'm a big fan of the NC concept, as long as I get to run my own
> >server and caching is used wherever possible to maintain the illusion
> >that the network is more reliable than it really is. I want every
> >device I own to be a gateway into my primary machine.

> I have some wild ideas on building a handheld machine for Linux and
> market it. Let's see if it ever materializes.

As far as I have heard, there are plans to modify ARM Linux to work on
the PSION5.

-- 
Ben
-- 
Ben (ben@fluff.org, http://www.fluff.org/)

  'a smiley only costs 4 bytes'

On Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:33:51 GMT, Will Ware <wware-nospam@world.std.com> wrote:
>: > In article <34f90bcf.23910830@news.wco.com>, me@SeeSigForRealAddress.com says:
>: > >I'd like to have a Linux box at home and have a handheld gateway
>: > >device, such as a PalmPilot, that could get me to a shell over the
>: > >net.
>
>I'm aware of two Linux PDA efforts. There's an outfit in the UK
>(the Silver Hammer Group, if memory serves) working on a Linux port
>for the Palm Pilot, and more generally for processors that don't have
>386-like memory management. I think the long-term goal is a Linux
>for embedded applications.

Note that as such this is not too likely to be the solution to the
problem at hand.  "Palm/Linux" is most likely to be useful for
embedding Linux inside systems where it would be nice to have a
palm-sized controller with:
a) Perhaps up to 6 buttons to play with, 
b) A serial port, 
c) Probably a half-meg of memory in which to run a control application,
and 
d) Not too much else.

Linux on the PalmPilot isn't likely to get you terribly far.

>The other thing, also a guy in the UK, is the TurboTortoise, described at
>http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/tortoise.html
>I first came across this page six months or a year ago, and thought,
>oh boy, can't wait for this thing to be available. But the web page
>hasn't visibly changed since then, so I have no idea if there's any
>progress toward marketing the thing. Cool idea though.

I was dubious of the likelihood of it happening, and am not surprised
that it hasn't gone too far.  Ideas are one thing; actually bringing
computer hardware "to market" (whether commercially or as a one-off
private thing) is a tough task.

More useful options:
- There are available for the PalmPilot such things as an SSL Telnet
client.  If you've got a route via which you can PPP to the "home"
host, then this may be a solution...  Just hook a modem to the Pilot
and you're on your way

- Various PDAs have "terminal emulators" available.  

I've used a Psion 3 to dial up to a UNIX box using the software that
came with the "serial connector."

Similar options are no doubt available for other PDAs. 

A rather more expensive option would be to look at something like the
Toshiba Libretto.  It has enough memory and disk space that it can
realistically run a "fullscale" x86 Linux, and could still fit in a coat
pocket. 

-- 
"UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things,  because 
that would also stop you from doing clever things."       - Doug Gwyn
cbbrowne@hex.net -  <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>

cbbrowne@news.hex.net (Christopher Browne) writes:

> A rather more expensive option would be to look at something like the
> Toshiba Libretto.  It has enough memory and disk space that it can
> realistically run a "fullscale" x86 Linux, and could still fit in a coat
> pocket. 

Alan Cox is running Linux on an IBM machine the size of a Libretto: http://toy.cabi.net

-- 
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>  http://web.crynwr.com/~nelson
Crynwr supports Open Source(tm) Software| PGPok |   Freedom is the primary
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice |   cause of Peace, Love,
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   |   Truth and Justice.

On 21 Mar 1998 22:39:53 -0500, Russell Nelson 
<nelson@crynwr.com> wrote:

>cbbrowne@news.hex.net (Christopher Browne) writes:
>
>> A rather more expensive option would be to look at something like the
>> Toshiba Libretto.  It has enough memory and disk space that it can
>> realistically run a "fullscale" x86 Linux, and could still fit in a coat
>> pocket. 
>
>Alan Cox is running Linux on an IBM machine the size of a Libretto: http://toy.cabi.net

The smallest Linux box I ever saw was built about a year and a half ago
by an acquaintance. He used one of the pcmcia-sized 486-on-a-card
boards, hooked up to a 2.5" hard disk, some cannibalized mobile phone
batteries, an LCD controller, and a Private Eye head-up display glued
to a pair of hacked lab goggles. For input he used one of those silly
marketroid-oriented mouse-thingies with virtually an entire keyboard
mounted on it as buttons; he also had a Private Eye velcro'd to the top
of this, and with a mobile phone in the Boston area he was able to zap
images off the street and onto his web site wherever he went.

The central guts, i/o gadgetry and spare batteries excluded, fitted in
a bum bag with room to spare for a wallet.

On the other hand, he worked at the MIT Media Lab, and half his kit's
casing had been rendered on a 3D printer ...


-- Charlie

In article <34f90bcf.23910830@news.wco.com>, me@SeeSigForRealAddress.com
says:
>I'd like to have a Linux box at home and have a handheld gateway
>device, such as a PalmPilot, that could get me to a shell over the
>net.

http://www.wins.hrl.com/people/ygz/pc110/
http://swan.ml.org/pc110/
http://www.redhat.com/~ed/linux-7110.html
-- 
 .-.    .-. .---. .---. .-..-. |Politics is the art of looking for
 | |__ / | \| |-< | |-<  >  /  |trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing
 `----'`-^-'`-'`-'`-'`-' `-'   |it and then  misapplying the wrong
       My opinions only.       |remedies.             Groucho Marx

In article <34f90bcf.23910830@news.wco.com>, me@SeeSigForRealAddress.com
says:
>I'd like to have a Linux box at home and have a handheld gateway
>device, such as a PalmPilot, that could get me to a shell over the
>net.

Try a Wearable Computer.  See:


   http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/projects/wearables/
   http://www.wearcomp.org

-- 

Arne W. Flones
flonesaw@nospamnetonecom.net
-- remove "nospam" for e-mail address --