🚀 go-pugleaf

kbennett@access.digex.net (Keith R. Bennett) writes:


{much deleted}

Let me second your comments Keith!!

>**********************************************************************

>OS/2's main obstacle to success is switching costs.

>By switching costs I mean the sum of all costs to a user or developer
>relating to switching to OS/2 from another operating system.

>One such cost is the cost of the software itself.  To your credit,
>you have reduced the price of many software products.  Software cost
>is therefore not that big a barrier.  (That is, unless you decide to
>start charging high prices for upgrades, etc. later.)

>There are other switching costs though, that are much higher than the
>price of the software.  Developer learning time costs thousands of
>dollars, and dwarfs the software cost.  I have described three
>concrete ways that you could reduce this cost.  Any progress you can
>make in this direction will result in more and better application
>software for OS/2, and greater incentive for customers to buy and use
>it.

>Please let me know what your plans are regarding these issues.

>Sincerely,
>Keith Bennett
>-- 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Keith Bennett                            Bennett Business Solutions, Inc.
>C++/C Software Development               1605 Ingram Terrace
>kbennett@access.digex.net                Silver Spring, MD USA 20906-5932

In article <28i1g7$54b@access.digex.net> kbennett@access.digex.net (Keith R. Bennett) writes:
>Following is a letter I wrote to IBM and sent to their technical
>support Internet address (cset2@vnet.ibm.com):
>
>Dear Sir/Madam:
>
>I would greatly appreciate if you could forward this message both to
>the director of the C/Tools++ project, and to your president.
>
>I am appalled at the lack of response I have experienced trying to
>get technical support from you via this email address.  Approximately
>two thirds of my messages go unanswered, even after several days.
>What kind of way is this to help developers build applications that
>will make OS/2 more appealing to the public?

<much deleted>

For what it's worth, I'd like to state that I've never had any letter
mailed to cset2@vnet.ibm.com go unanswered, or have an unsatisfactory
response.  But it does frequently take a few days.
-- 

==============================================================================
Jeff Cohen         | #include <standard.disclaimer>
jeffc@netcom.com   |                       
==============================================================================

Keith,

Your points are well taken. I have several suggestions for you, when you 
have problems with support. 

		1) You should have requested a follow up phone call
		   to your inquiry. 

		2) Try to send your notes like this to the person 
		   in charge directly. Irv Spalten, one of the sysop's
		   on compuserve could probably make sure this is done.

		3) Request to speak to a manager.

Sometimes it's pretty difficult to get through the big blue beauracracy. 
Occasionally, you may need to request to speak to a manager. At that point,
you will get results. 

Bill  
-- 
Bill Laird
blaird@sosi.com             
597-8700@mcimail.com         
         "640 K is all the memory you will ever need" - Bill Gates      

In article <28i1g7$54b@access.digex.net>,
kbennett@access.digex.net (Keith R. Bennett) writes:
>
>Following is a letter I wrote to IBM and sent to their technical
>support Internet address (cset2@vnet.ibm.com):

This is not a formal response to your letter, just my opinion.

I think part of the problem may be that the above id is perceived as
a technical contact for all IBM products.   It's not -- it's for the
C Set ++ (and C Set/2) compiler.

If you have a question or problem with C Set ++, and receive you receive
an unsatisfactory answer, by all means complain -- to the cset2 id, or
to me if you wish.

If, however, you have a problem filling listboxes, or getting semaphores
to work, or anything else concerning OS/2... you're simply asking the
wrong people.  This is not to say we don't want to help -- I fully
agree with the need to provide technical support to OS/2 developers.
It's just that the people who man that ID don't know the answer to
many of _the_OS/2_questions_ that are asked of them.

I think the focus of your letter should been asking OS/2 support to
provide better internet access (they already offer technical support
on compuserve), instead of venting your ire on a product that already
does (C Set ++).      -tim

In article <19931004.100027.339@almaden.ibm.com>,
Tim Francis <francis@vnet.IBM.COM> wrote:
>In article <28i1g7$54b@access.digex.net>,
>kbennett@access.digex.net (Keith R. Bennett) writes:
>>
>>Following is a letter I wrote to IBM and sent to their technical
>>support Internet address (cset2@vnet.ibm.com):
>
>This is not a formal response to your letter, just my opinion.
>
>I think part of the problem may be that the above id is perceived as
>a technical contact for all IBM products.   It's not -- it's for the
>C Set ++ (and C Set/2) compiler.
>
>If you have a question or problem with C Set ++, and receive you receive
>an unsatisfactory answer, by all means complain -- to the cset2 id, or
>to me if you wish.
>
>If, however, you have a problem filling listboxes, or getting semaphores
>to work, or anything else concerning OS/2... you're simply asking the
>wrong people.  This is not to say we don't want to help -- I fully
>agree with the need to provide technical support to OS/2 developers.
>It's just that the people who man that ID don't know the answer to
>many of _the_OS/2_questions_ that are asked of them.
>

I appreciate your response.  It is true that a couple of my questions
were general to OS/2 and not specific to C/Set++.

You excluded a large area of questions.  Tell me, then,
what *is* included in the scope of their expertise?  I hope it's
more than how to install it, open a project, etc.

I may not be typical, but when I see that tech support is offered
for a compiler and toolkit, I assume that that support extends to
technical issues and not just compiler operation.  I'm not asking
to be taught, but answering a few questions would be helpful.
Perhaps this limitation of su pport should be mentioned in the
documentation so as not to fall short of customer expectations.

>I think the focus of your letter should been asking OS/2 support to
>provide better internet access (they already offer technical support
>on compuserve), instead of venting your ire on a product that already
>does (C Set ++).      -tim

Well, I should acknowledge that C/Set++ may be among the first
(maybe the first?) IBM product I know of to offer Internet support
at all, and that is commendable.  But, as I mentioned in the letter,
C/Set++ support is lacking, and that is the primary tool I use to
develop OS/2 applications.

I don't mean to antagonize anyone, but I do want to express the
intensity of my frustration.  I do want to be constructive here,
and I will be the first to publicly praise you guys when this
situation improves.

- Keith


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Bennett                            Bennett Business Solutions, Inc.
C++/C Software Development               1605 Ingram Terrace
kbennett@access.digex.net                Silver Spring, MD USA 20906-5932

In article <28ps6t$9um@access.digex.net>,
kbennett@access.digex.net (Keith R. Bennett) writes:
>
>I appreciate your response.  It is true that a couple of my questions
>were general to OS/2 and not specific to C/Set++.
>
>You excluded a large area of questions.  Tell me, then,
>what *is* included in the scope of their expertise?  I hope it's
>more than how to install it, open a project, etc.

Certainly.   I realize that there's a grey area between a compiler
question, and an operating system question.   Hopefully, our support
people can answer all the compiler questions, and at least halfway
into the grey of OS questions.  As I said before, if you have specific
examples of questions you feel were answered poorly, send them to me
off-line and I'll see if I can help.

I think a simple test you can answer yourself is whether or not you'd
have the same question if you were using another compiler.   For
example, creating a semaphore, using shared memory, creating a
PM container, registering a WPS class -- none of these are really
compiler related.  As long as the compiler generates correct code(!),
all we do is call the relevant OS function, and return the result to
you.

Please don't assume that our support line will reject OS questions
out of hand.  If they can, they'll answer it.   If they can't, they'll
route the question down to the OS/2 support area.   In either case,
you probably won't get an answer as quickly as you would for a
question about the compiler.

>I may not be typical, but when I see that tech support is offered
>for a compiler and toolkit, I assume that that support extends to
>technical issues and not just compiler operation.  I'm not asking
>to be taught, but answering a few questions would be helpful.

Again, without knowing the details of your questions, it's difficult
to comment.  Of course our support team answer technical questions.
The problem is how far do we (or should we) go?   Would you expect
Borland to be able to help you if a DOS interrupt you call (with
their compiler) doesn't work?  If a runtime call fails, that's one
thing -- but if it's the OS, there's not much the compiler vendor
can do.

> ....
>Well, I should acknowledge that C/Set++ may be among the first
>(maybe the first?) IBM product I know of to offer Internet support
>at all, and that is commendable.  But, as I mentioned in the letter,
>C/Set++ support is lacking, and that is the primary tool I use to
>develop OS/2 applications.

I don't disagree.   Our business is hinged on the success of OS/2 even
more than yours is, so I want to see all the help developers need
available via internet.   Your letter has not been ignored, and I'm
sending a copy of it to several people internally who may be able to
do something about it.  In the meantime, all I ask is for you to be
aware of the difference between compiler support and OS support.

Thanks for your feedback.   -tim

Wow!  Where did you guys(IBM) come from(with respect to the Internet)?  I'm
gearing up for OS/2, and leapfrogging Windows altogether, this Spring.  My
principal interest is C++ programming.  Although my system research is still
in the "hardware" mode, I will be investigating my OS/2 C++ compiler options
by year's end.  Receiving Internet technical support is a *plus*!  Nice work!

I have been arguing that, if an organization wants to firmly establish itself
with the "grass roots," Internet is a good place to be.  I'm glad to learn
that your management recognizes the value of this great forum!  Sorry to say
this, but count me in as one of those who have a low opinion of your Marketing
department.  Your presence here should diminish your Sales department's
dependancy on "those bimbos."  :-)

Again, hats off to you for being a "trend setter" at IBM!  I hope your
systems support team is watching as you break "new ground."