🚀 go-pugleaf

> I'm back from WWDC and this is really a great tool,  I just don't want 
> anyone to say they didn't know about the special price.

Before I am willing to spend more money for one more updated for full
OS X functionality:

Can anybody tell me if the following bugs/features will be
fixed/implemented in Version 8:

- passing command line options for starting/debugging when developing
command line applications
- debugging of command line applications with text/input and output
visible (input and output redirection would be nice)
- file name length limit in the file dialog

Sorry for the unfriendly tone, but trying to develop UNIX apps with
these bugs/missing features really is no fun.
At the moment one has to hard-code commandline options and debugging
means switching back to the old 'printf'/'cerr' style of bug hunting.

Regards,

Harald

Did anything change in PowerPlant besides a few bug fixes? I haven't
seen anything mentioned about PowerPlant except that it's in the
product. Any changes to the views system? Better support for Carbon
Events? Anything?

In article <cfe8099b.0205151251.6bee15e6@posting.google.com>,
 pwasson@mac.com (Philip D. Wasson) wrote:

>Did anything change in PowerPlant besides a few bug fixes? I haven't
>seen anything mentioned about PowerPlant except that it's in the
>product. Any changes to the views system? Better support for Carbon
>Events? Anything?


send me an e-mail and I'll send you the preliminary release notes there 
are a lot of changes and fixes but not much "new".  

Ron

-- 
  Announcing Special Pre-Order Sale for CodeWarrior 8 
           Expires Midnight May 30, 2002
   http://www.metrowerksstore.com/codformacosp.html

 Metrowerks, maker of CodeWarrior  -  "Software Starts Here"  
Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

Ron - And NG:

Unfortunately your response belies exactly my one big gripe about
Metrowerks:

Changes and fixes but not much new.

So how can you charge so much if all you are doing is changes and fixes but
not much new.

Upgrades - errrr - updates (as changes and fixes implies to me) should be
priced at half of what you are asking for....

And you still haven't got JAVA - Apples latest release version to run on my
X system. Tech Support keeps telling me to go back to the original 1.3
Java....install from Apple.


Someone needs to have a reality check on the business model. And I am not
looking to buy the Brooklyn Bridge. I am not looking for a new coat of paint
with a Revision Change, I want more cylinders under the hood and a six-speed
with better gas mileage and a Bose sound system to boot.

in article mwron-B6109C.20423315052002@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 5/15/02 7:42 PM:

> In article <cfe8099b.0205151251.6bee15e6@posting.google.com>,
> pwasson@mac.com (Philip D. Wasson) wrote:
> 
>> Did anything change in PowerPlant besides a few bug fixes? I haven't
>> seen anything mentioned about PowerPlant except that it's in the
>> product. Any changes to the views system? Better support for Carbon
>> Events? Anything?
> 
> 
> send me an e-mail and I'll send you the preliminary release notes there
> are a lot of changes and fixes but not much "new".
> 
> Ron

Touche'!!!



In article <B90B3664.402C%tom325@flash.net>,
 Tom Anderson <tom325@flash.net> wrote:

> Ron - And NG:
> 
> Unfortunately your response belies exactly my one big gripe about
> Metrowerks:
> 
> Changes and fixes but not much new.
> 
> So how can you charge so much if all you are doing is changes and fixes but
> not much new.
> 
> Upgrades - errrr - updates (as changes and fixes implies to me) should be
> priced at half of what you are asking for....
> 
> And you still haven't got JAVA - Apples latest release version to run on my
> X system. Tech Support keeps telling me to go back to the original 1.3
> Java....install from Apple.
> 
> 
> Someone needs to have a reality check on the business model. And I am not
> looking to buy the Brooklyn Bridge. I am not looking for a new coat of paint
> with a Revision Change, I want more cylinders under the hood and a six-speed
> with better gas mileage and a Bose sound system to boot.
> 
> in article mwron-B6109C.20423315052002@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
> mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 5/15/02 7:42 PM:
> 
> > In article <cfe8099b.0205151251.6bee15e6@posting.google.com>,
> > pwasson@mac.com (Philip D. Wasson) wrote:
> > 
> >> Did anything change in PowerPlant besides a few bug fixes? I haven't
> >> seen anything mentioned about PowerPlant except that it's in the
> >> product. Any changes to the views system? Better support for Carbon
> >> Events? Anything?
> > 
> > 
> > send me an e-mail and I'll send you the preliminary release notes there
> > are a lot of changes and fixes but not much "new".
> > 
> > Ron
>

I can't speak for PowerPlant, simply because I am not familiar with
that part of the product.  But this thread took a PowerPlant specific
question and then generalized the answer as if to reflect the entire
Pro product.

I can assure you at least with the parts of the product I am familiar: 
the C++ compiler and the C++ library, there is plenty new.  The new
template parser alone in the C++ compiler is enough to knock my socks
off.  Maybe that's not important for your work.  But the Pro 8 compiler
will handle the latest template meta-programming stuff:  Loki,
is_convertible, the most recent is_enum stuff (if you've been following
that thread c++.moderated thread).  Personally I am very excited to
have access to such a high quality compiler.

Again, not sure if it is important to your work, but the C++ library
sports a new debug mode that will detect range errors and invalid uses
of iterators in the STL, even under exception throwing conditions.  The
containers also have a new invariants() method that can be called at
any time to check the internal consistency of the object.  This C++ lib
is now finding bugs in STL test suites instead of the other way around.

Pro 8 is a phenomenal release.


In article <no-71CB5F.11542118052002@netnews.attbi.com>, Zamfoo the
Magnificent <no@spam.maam> wrote:

| Touche'!!!
| 
| 
| 
| In article <B90B3664.402C%tom325@flash.net>,
|  Tom Anderson <tom325@flash.net> wrote:
| 
| > Ron - And NG:
| > 
| > Unfortunately your response belies exactly my one big gripe about
| > Metrowerks:
| > 
| > Changes and fixes but not much new.
| > 
| > So how can you charge so much if all you are doing is changes and fixes but
| > not much new.
| > 
| > Upgrades - errrr - updates (as changes and fixes implies to me) should be
| > priced at half of what you are asking for....
| > 
| > And you still haven't got JAVA - Apples latest release version to run on my
| > X system. Tech Support keeps telling me to go back to the original 1.3
| > Java....install from Apple.
| > 
| > 
| > Someone needs to have a reality check on the business model. And I am not
| > looking to buy the Brooklyn Bridge. I am not looking for a new coat of paint
| > with a Revision Change, I want more cylinders under the hood and a six-speed
| > with better gas mileage and a Bose sound system to boot.
| > 
| > in article mwron-B6109C.20423315052002@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
| > mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 5/15/02 7:42 PM:
| > 
| > > In article <cfe8099b.0205151251.6bee15e6@posting.google.com>,
| > > pwasson@mac.com (Philip D. Wasson) wrote:
| > > 
| > >> Did anything change in PowerPlant besides a few bug fixes? I haven't
| > >> seen anything mentioned about PowerPlant except that it's in the
| > >> product. Any changes to the views system? Better support for Carbon
| > >> Events? Anything?
| > > 
| > > 
| > > send me an e-mail and I'll send you the preliminary release notes there
| > > are a lot of changes and fixes but not much "new".
| > > 
| > > Ron
| >

-- 
Howard Hinnant
Metrowerks

In article <180520021616422583%hinnant@antispam.metrowerks.com>,
 Howard Hinnant <hinnant@antispam.metrowerks.com> wrote:

> Again, not sure if it is important to your work, but the C++ library
> sports a new debug mode that will detect range errors and invalid uses
> of iterators in the STL, even under exception throwing conditions.

Kick butt! (And write code)

meeroh

In article <B90B3664.402C%tom325@flash.net>,
 Tom Anderson <tom325@flash.net> wrote:

>Ron - And NG:
>
>Unfortunately your response belies exactly my one big gripe about
>Metrowerks:
>
>Changes and fixes but not much new.

 If someone asks about PowerPlant specifically that is what I am going 
to write about.   CodeWarrior 8 is the most dramatic change without 
affecting the users interface that we have done. 

code completion for C/C++ and Java  
On the fly language parsing,  you no longer have to compile the code to 
get the highlighted syntax
better dif 
better compilers
better MSL
Better browser
Full cocoa suppport on OS X
Compatibility with  OS X Interface Builder 
Better handling of Bundles
Better handling of Frameworks
Long name support in C/C++  (Java to follow in a patch after release)
Better Template support
Java 1.4 support on Mac and Windows
Better optimizers
on and on and on

we aren't just talking about bug fixes but with things entirely new 5.0 
IDE 3.0 compiler debugger  etc.

Mach-O  with SYM files for debugging.  JNI Mach-O  debugging  and on and 
on.

>So how can you charge so much if all you are doing is changes and fixes but
>not much new.

We have tons of new features things that we have not been able to do for 
the past few years as we tried to keep up with Apple and OS X.   Now 
with 10.1 there is a excellent and stable OS and we are kicking butt 
with new features that you all have demanded for years.

>And you still haven't got JAVA - Apples latest release version to run on my
>X system. Tech Support keeps telling me to go back to the original 1.3
>Java....install from Apple.

Are you talking about the RAD tools or something else.  I'm on vacation 
this week but send me some information on your problem and I'll look 
into it.

>Someone needs to have a reality check on the business model. And I am not
>looking to buy the Brooklyn Bridge. I am not looking for a new coat of paint
>with a Revision Change, I want more cylinders under the hood and a six-speed
>with better gas mileage and a Bose sound system to boot.

YOU GOT IT IN CW 8

 Now for PowerPlant, unfortunately the current framework design is 8 
years old and needs more than just updating to take full advantage of OS 
X.   Metrowerks is very bullish on PowerPlant and sees a long future for 
it.  (read between the lines on this).

Ron

-- 
  Announcing Special Pre-Order Sale for CodeWarrior 8 
           Expires Midnight May 30, 2002
   http://www.metrowerksstore.com/codformacosp.html

 Metrowerks, maker of CodeWarrior  -  "Software Starts Here"  
Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

In article <no-71CB5F.11542118052002@netnews.attbi.com>,
 Zamfoo the Magnificent <no@spam.maam> wrote:

>Touche'!!!

Touche' to what.?  CodeWarrior 8 is a significant step in adding to Mac 
OS X productivity.  It is feature rich yet has done a great job of 
protecting the old user interface so developers do not loose that 
familiarity and need to learn new tricks.

It just works fine,  for example  one user has said that the time it 
took to load a Java program in the debugger fell from 2 minutes to 8 
seconds.

One Cocoa program that takes TWENTY MINUTES to compile with Project 
builder compiles in 43 SECONDS with CODEWARRIOR.  (and that was 
precompiled the headers too).

We simply have an essential tool that everyone should upgrade to in my 
opinion.   

Ron

-- 
  Announcing Special Pre-Order Sale for CodeWarrior 8 
           Expires Midnight May 30, 2002
   http://www.metrowerksstore.com/codformacosp.html

 Metrowerks, maker of CodeWarrior  -  "Software Starts Here"  
Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

Ron et al -

I want you to know that I am going to upgrade both the Windows and Mac
CodeWarrior packages. I have been using CW since Symantec killed THINK.

I just want to see the bugs that may be in CWP-8 eradicated (granted there
may be some left over subtle bugs that might hang around) before Metrowerks
moves on to CW-9.

Yes, this is a great product - my point is I don't want to see feature creep
as an excuse to forget about the current version. It is easy - with a
limited staff - to get caught up with building something new. After all I
find it a lot more challenging to work on something different than to keep
fixing the old. But I owe it to my customer base to make what I currently
provide as reliable as possible - and I work in the electronics industry -
where new designs come out every week. New designs in this industry do not
stop companies from fixing bugs in current silicon - or making improvements
to enhance performance of existing designs (this include improving process
yields - allowing price reductions).

So, even though I have ranted a few times on these message boards, I will
keep coming back for upgrades - as long as I feel that the number one
feature being provided by MetroWerks (aka Motorola) is product quality.

Tom



in article mwron-7BD91B.21551518052002@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 5/18/02 8:55 PM:

> In article <B90B3664.402C%tom325@flash.net>,
> Tom Anderson <tom325@flash.net> wrote:
> 
>> Ron - And NG:
>> 
>> Unfortunately your response belies exactly my one big gripe about
>> Metrowerks:
>> 
>> Changes and fixes but not much new.
> 
> If someone asks about PowerPlant specifically that is what I am going
> to write about.   CodeWarrior 8 is the most dramatic change without
> affecting the users interface that we have done.
> 
> code completion for C/C++ and Java
> On the fly language parsing,  you no longer have to compile the code to
> get the highlighted syntax
> better dif 
> better compilers
> better MSL
> Better browser
> Full cocoa suppport on OS X
> Compatibility with  OS X Interface Builder
> Better handling of Bundles
> Better handling of Frameworks
> Long name support in C/C++  (Java to follow in a patch after release)
> Better Template support
> Java 1.4 support on Mac and Windows
> Better optimizers
> on and on and on
> 
> we aren't just talking about bug fixes but with things entirely new 5.0
> IDE 3.0 compiler debugger  etc.
> 
> Mach-O  with SYM files for debugging.  JNI Mach-O  debugging  and on and
> on.
> 
>> So how can you charge so much if all you are doing is changes and fixes but
>> not much new.
> 
> We have tons of new features things that we have not been able to do for
> the past few years as we tried to keep up with Apple and OS X.   Now
> with 10.1 there is a excellent and stable OS and we are kicking butt
> with new features that you all have demanded for years.
> 
>> And you still haven't got JAVA - Apples latest release version to run on my
>> X system. Tech Support keeps telling me to go back to the original 1.3
>> Java....install from Apple.
> 
> Are you talking about the RAD tools or something else.  I'm on vacation
> this week but send me some information on your problem and I'll look
> into it.
> 
>> Someone needs to have a reality check on the business model. And I am not
>> looking to buy the Brooklyn Bridge. I am not looking for a new coat of paint
>> with a Revision Change, I want more cylinders under the hood and a six-speed
>> with better gas mileage and a Bose sound system to boot.
> 
> YOU GOT IT IN CW 8
> 
> Now for PowerPlant, unfortunately the current framework design is 8
> years old and needs more than just updating to take full advantage of OS
> X.   Metrowerks is very bullish on PowerPlant and sees a long future for
> it.  (read between the lines on this).
> 
> Ron

in article B90D39BB.40FB%tom325@flash.net, Tom Anderson at tom325@flash.net
wrote on 19/5/02 9:15 am:

> 
> I just want to see the bugs that may be in CWP-8 eradicated (granted there
> may be some left over subtle bugs that might hang around) before Metrowerks
> moves on to CW-9.

snip

> ... But I owe it to my customer base to make what I currently
> provide as reliable as possible - and I work in the electronics industry -
> where new designs come out every week. New designs in this industry do not
> stop companies from fixing bugs in current silicon - or making improvements
> to enhance performance of existing designs (this include improving process
> yields - allowing price reductions).
> 
If you want to sample really poor support, try upgrading a Borland product.
I use both CW v7 and Borland's C++ Builder and I think both are very
powerful products, but I just upgraded to Borland C++ Builder v6 and got a
number of serious problems.

Every avenue (newsgroups, email, web searching) I have tried to get support
(other than paying a premium rate) has been ignored or found nothing useful
or ended with a failed email address the Borland web site advertises as a
contact address. Observing the Borland newsgroups I have tried there seems
to be about a one in ten chance of a posting getting assistance with the
problem it reports.

By contrast, when I upgraded to CW v7 I got the normal period of free online
support and every question I asked via the CW newsgroups got some attempt at
help, both from Metrowerks staff and other users.

I too have to support clients, but my ability to do so when I find problems
is enhanced by Metrowerks and is being retarded by Borland. Metrowerks may
not be perfect, but I know which support services I prefer.

Geoff