🚀 go-pugleaf

in article mwron-8CACDA.14184825082003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 8/25/03 11:18 AM:

> 
> New Breakpoints Window
> * Breakpoints, watchpoints and eventpoints are now combined into one
> easy to use window.
> * The group page lets you work with breakpoints, eventpoints,
> watchpoints, and internal breakpoints.
> * You can now open breakpoints in the Object Inspector which will allow
> you to view and change the breakpoints' properties.
> * The Instances page lets you set breakpoints, eventpoints, and
> watchpoints on a per thread or per-process basis.
> * The Templates page lets you define breakpoint templates and specify a
> default breakpoint template.
> * Once you have a breakpoint set the way you like it you can then use it
> as a template for future breakpoints.
> Other New Windows
> * New profile information viewer
> * Part of the IDE now.

What does this item mean?  I heard from your salesperson who tried to sell
me CW9 that you are still using gdb.

> * New trace viewer
> * The Profiler can now provide program trace information to the debugger.

I was just about to buy one of the new G5s.  But then I put 2 and 2
together.  On the new G5s I lose OS 9 as a functioning debugging platform
(in lieu of any useful debugging on OS X).  So this means I either give up
buying a new computer or give up using CodeWarrior, and move to XCode.

So what use is any of this if there are no bug fixes, and the OS X is still
useless as a debugging platform?

Either you and your sales person have made major omissions of important
information, or development management has omitted anything useful from this
new version.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm freaking out.  I just tried to debug something
under OS X in CW 8.3, and had the usual luck (none whatsoever).  Unless I
hear something really surprising, somehow omitted from this otherwise
useless information, or I am probably giving up using CodeWarrior, and
having to go through the pain of porting to an almost entirely unfamiliar
environment.

-Kurt Bigler

Kurt Bigler wrote:

> in article mwron-8CACDA.14184825082003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
> mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 8/25/03 11:18 AM:
>>* New profile information viewer
>>* Part of the IDE now.
> 
> What does this item mean?  I heard from your salesperson who tried to sell
> me CW9 that you are still using gdb.

V9 still used GDB as its debugger nub.  This feature is indicating that 
profiler information can be viewed in the IDE.  Before, you ran a 
separate program to view profiling data; IDE 5.5 has that built-in, 
linked to the editor window similar to how the errors-and-warnings 
window works.

-- 
Ben Combee <bcombee@metrowerks.com>
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Palm OS programming help at http://www.palmoswerks.com/

in article BB79584E.B5AD%kkb@breathsense.com, Kurt Bigler at
kkb@breathsense.com wrote on 09/01/2003 9:10 PM:

> So what use is any of this if there are no bug fixes, and the OS X is still
> useless as a debugging platform?

Say what? I have no problem debugging in OS X with CW 8.3... I no that
there's a problem with seeing global variables, but that doesn't bother me
and certainly doesn't make it useless...

In article <BB79584E.B5AD%kkb@breathsense.com>,
 Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:

>in article mwron-8CACDA.14184825082003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
>mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 8/25/03 11:18 AM:
>
>> 
>> New Breakpoints Window
>> * Breakpoints, watchpoints and eventpoints are now combined into one
>> easy to use window.
>> * The group page lets you work with breakpoints, eventpoints,
>> watchpoints, and internal breakpoints.
>> * You can now open breakpoints in the Object Inspector which will allow
>> you to view and change the breakpoints' properties.
>> * The Instances page lets you set breakpoints, eventpoints, and
>> watchpoints on a per thread or per-process basis.
>> * The Templates page lets you define breakpoint templates and specify a
>> default breakpoint template.
>> * Once you have a breakpoint set the way you like it you can then use it
>> as a template for future breakpoints.
>> Other New Windows
>> * New profile information viewer
>> * Part of the IDE now.
>
>What does this item mean?  I heard from your salesperson who tried to sell
>me CW9 that you are still using gdb.
>
>> * New trace viewer
>> * The Profiler can now provide program trace information to the debugger.

Ben explained this very well

>I was just about to buy one of the new G5s.  But then I put 2 and 2
>together.  On the new G5s I lose OS 9 as a functioning debugging platform
>(in lieu of any useful debugging on OS X).  So this means I either give up
>buying a new computer or give up using CodeWarrior, and move to XCode.
>
>So what use is any of this if there are no bug fixes, and the OS X is still
>useless as a debugging platform?

We will include a version of CW 8 IDE that can be used as a standalone 
debugger for Classic Debugging or debugging on OS 9.

>Either you and your sales person have made major omissions of important
>information, or development management has omitted anything useful from this
>new version.

It is hard to explain 1300 Megabyes of software in a few paragraphs :)  


>Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm freaking out.  I just tried to debug something
>under OS X in CW 8.3, and had the usual luck (none whatsoever).

You probably didn't have Apple's Developers Tools installed.  You need 
the Aug or December version in order to debug with CW 8.  If you are 
trying to debug Classic  from OS X then you just need to launch the IDE 
as Classic

>  Unless I
>hear something really surprising, somehow omitted from this otherwise
>useless information, or I am probably giving up using CodeWarrior, and
>having to go through the pain of porting to an almost entirely unfamiliar
>environment.

There is just so much documentation and release notes that it is hard to 
get and remember all the information.   This is why we monitor the 
newsgrouups.  Just let me try and help.

Ron

-- 
         CodeWarrior Development Studio for Macintosh v9
Enhance Your Productivity and Shorten your Development Cycles
                 <http://store.metrowerks.com/> 
        Sales and Support 512-996-5300   800-377-5416     
Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

In article <mwron-4158FF.11431902092003@enews.newsguy.com>, MW Ron
<mwron@metrowerks.com> wrote:

> In article <BB79584E.B5AD%kkb@breathsense.com>,
>  Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:
> 
> >Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm freaking out.  I just tried to debug something
> >under OS X in CW 8.3, and had the usual luck (none whatsoever).
> 
> You probably didn't have Apple's Developers Tools installed.  You need 
> the Aug or December version in order to debug with CW 8.  If you are 
> trying to debug Classic  from OS X then you just need to launch the IDE 
> as Classic

And make sure the full pathname to your executable, source, etc.
doesn't contain any special characters.  E.g. if your home directory is
named "Kurt's Home" which includes an apostrophe, the CW 8.3 debugger
will not start successfully.

Ron, IMHO, this caveat needs to be repeated just as often as the "You
must have the correct developer tools installed" one.

EO

in article mwron-4158FF.11431902092003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 9/2/03 8:43 AM:

> In article <BB79584E.B5AD%kkb@breathsense.com>,
> Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:
> 
>> in article mwron-8CACDA.14184825082003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
>> mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 8/25/03 11:18 AM:
>> 
>>> 
>>> New Breakpoints Window
>>> * Breakpoints, watchpoints and eventpoints are now combined into one
>>> easy to use window.
>>> * The group page lets you work with breakpoints, eventpoints,
>>> watchpoints, and internal breakpoints.
>>> * You can now open breakpoints in the Object Inspector which will allow
>>> you to view and change the breakpoints' properties.
>>> * The Instances page lets you set breakpoints, eventpoints, and
>>> watchpoints on a per thread or per-process basis.
>>> * The Templates page lets you define breakpoint templates and specify a
>>> default breakpoint template.
>>> * Once you have a breakpoint set the way you like it you can then use it
>>> as a template for future breakpoints.
>>> Other New Windows
>>> * New profile information viewer
>>> * Part of the IDE now.
>> 
>> What does this item mean?  I heard from your salesperson who tried to sell
>> me CW9 that you are still using gdb.

I had quite a few problems parsing the bullet items in various lists.  To me
each bullet item is supposed to be a context-free child of the enclosing
topic.  So I thought it meant that the debugger is part of the IDE now.
Never mind!  ;)

>>> * New trace viewer
>>> * The Profiler can now provide program trace information to the debugger.
> 
> Ben explained this very well
> 
>> I was just about to buy one of the new G5s.  But then I put 2 and 2
>> together.  On the new G5s I lose OS 9 as a functioning debugging platform
>> (in lieu of any useful debugging on OS X).  So this means I either give up
>> buying a new computer or give up using CodeWarrior, and move to XCode.
>> 
>> So what use is any of this if there are no bug fixes, and the OS X is still
>> useless as a debugging platform?
> 
> We will include a version of CW 8 IDE that can be used as a standalone
> debugger for Classic Debugging or debugging on OS 9.
> 
>> Either you and your sales person have made major omissions of important
>> information, or development management has omitted anything useful from this
>> new version.
> 
> It is hard to explain 1300 Megabyes of software in a few paragraphs :)

No, but if you had fixed the debugger, the number one item at the top should
be "the debugger now works".  Lacking that, I have to assume it still
doesn't.  See below before responding to this.
> 
> 
>> Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm freaking out.  I just tried to debug something
>> under OS X in CW 8.3, and had the usual luck (none whatsoever).
> 
> You probably didn't have Apple's Developers Tools installed.  You need
> the Aug or December version in order to debug with CW 8.  If you are
> trying to debug Classic  from OS X then you just need to launch the IDE
> as Classic

No everything is installed fine, the debugger *runs* and a good fraction of
its features work sometimes.

But I see that I was unclear.  I thought it was just well understood by
everyone that the CW8 OS X debugger is relatively useless.  Viewing global
variables is not the only problem.  Only half of the local variables show,
and of course this will usually turn out to exclude the ones you need to
see, and IIRC (I use it so rarely so I forget whether this was fixed) you
can not set breakpoints in certain modules.

Everything I described has been acknowledged and discussed on this list and
elsewhere.  I was not aware that some people *could* use the debugger, e.g.
Scott Ribe apparently is able to view his local variables and can set
breakpoints where he needs to set them.

So I am waiting for a debugger that works.  The features are not
particularly interesting.  I don't know of any advantages that buying CW9
would offer me if I have to use CW8 in order.  It strikes me as much
misplaced effort to deliver large quantities of fancy sublte features when
the platform still does not work.  But if somehow I am in the minority, then
I can understand it, but I was not aware of that from others who I have
talked to.

> 
>> Unless I
>> hear something really surprising, somehow omitted from this otherwise
>> useless information, or I am probably giving up using CodeWarrior, and
>> having to go through the pain of porting to an almost entirely unfamiliar
>> environment.
> 
> There is just so much documentation and release notes that it is hard to
> get and remember all the information.   This is why we monitor the
> newsgrouups.  Just let me try and help.

Thanks, but you could help much more by trying to stop development from
staying in such a feature-motivated mode when there are so many
show-stopping bugs.

I just want to know when the debuger will work.  I would like to upgrade
then.  I was hoping to hear that I had it all wrong and this had been fixed,
and then I would happily write my check.  Lacking that I would like to hear
that all other develpment will be stopped until the debugger is working.

> 
> Ron

In article <BB7A2EA3.B5DF%kkb@breathsense.com>,
 Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:

>
>But I see that I was unclear.  I thought it was just well understood by
>everyone that the CW8 OS X debugger is relatively useless. 

as compared to what, using GDB. 

> Viewing global
>variables is not the only problem.  Only half of the local variables show,
>and of course this will usually turn out to exclude the ones you need to
>see, and IIRC (I use it so rarely so I forget whether this was fixed) you
>can not set breakpoints in certain modules.

If you can't see breakpoints or variables it probably is an indication 
that your project is too big.   There is a limit to the number of 
symbolics we could store and that was not big deal due to the 
limitations of TOC.  However with CW 7.2 people started making larger 
and larger applications as they were not forced to write DLL's and such. 
therefore we seen a lot more complaints.  We have increased the limit to 
something like 4 gig from 65k  so this shouldn't be a problem.  

>Everything I described has been acknowledged and discussed on this list and
>elsewhere.  I was not aware that some people *could* use the debugger, e.g.
>Scott Ribe apparently is able to view his local variables and can set
>breakpoints where he needs to set them.

In all fairness a good program design would not have this problem but I 
understand that customers don't always have this luxury.

>So I am waiting for a debugger that works.  

it has always been there, and CW 8.3 is very effective, however it does 
not work in the same manner as previous versions.  Most problems are a 
matter of procedural changes. (Hey they bite me too, and it is 
aggravating) or just the differences to Mach-O and how it works.


>Thanks, but you could help much more by trying to stop development from
>staying in such a feature-motivated mode when there are so many
>show-stopping bugs.

You made my day.   The worry has been that by putting 8 months into 
nothing but quality enhancements and fixing all prioriity one and two 
bugs that our customers would not notice the newer features.  

Bless you !!!!

>I just want to know when the debuger will work.  I would like to upgrade
>then.  I was hoping to hear that I had it all wrong and this had been fixed,
>and then I would happily write my check.  Lacking that I would like to hear
>that all other develpment will be stopped until the debugger is working.

The debugger has added features that allows it to work in a manner you 
seem to be desiring.  It lets you to have mammoth files and number of 
files without losing variables or breakpoints.  It has a way now that 
lets you see global and static variables in the local variables pains  
as it used to do with PowerPC programs for many years.   

Ron

-- 
         CodeWarrior Development Studio for Macintosh v9
Enhance Your Productivity and Shorten your Development Cycles
                 <http://store.metrowerks.com/> 
        Sales and Support 512-996-5300   800-377-5416     
Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

In article <020920031043473690%ercole@olivario.org>,
 Ercole Olivario <ercole@olivario.org> wrote:

>In article <mwron-4158FF.11431902092003@enews.newsguy.com>, MW Ron
><mwron@metrowerks.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <BB79584E.B5AD%kkb@breathsense.com>,
>>  Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm freaking out.  I just tried to debug something
>> >under OS X in CW 8.3, and had the usual luck (none whatsoever).
>> 
>> You probably didn't have Apple's Developers Tools installed.  You need 
>> the Aug or December version in order to debug with CW 8.  If you are 
>> trying to debug Classic  from OS X then you just need to launch the IDE 
>> as Classic
>
>And make sure the full pathname to your executable, source, etc.
>doesn't contain any special characters.  E.g. if your home directory is
>named "Kurt's Home" which includes an apostrophe, the CW 8.3 debugger
>will not start successfully.

Actually I think this was a bug in GDB not passing the information but 
using the apostorphe as a directory separator.

>Ron, IMHO, this caveat needs to be repeated just as often as the "You
>must have the correct developer tools installed" one.

:)

Ron

-- 
         CodeWarrior Development Studio for Macintosh v9
Enhance Your Productivity and Shorten your Development Cycles
                 <http://store.metrowerks.com/> 
        Sales and Support 512-996-5300   800-377-5416     
Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

In article <mwron-87C42A.16280202092003@enews.newsguy.com>,
 MW Ron <mwron@metrowerks.com> wrote:

> In article <020920031043473690%ercole@olivario.org>,
>  Ercole Olivario <ercole@olivario.org> wrote:

> >And make sure the full pathname to your executable, source, etc.
> >doesn't contain any special characters.  E.g. if your home directory is
> >named "Kurt's Home" which includes an apostrophe, the CW 8.3 debugger
> >will not start successfully.
> 
> Actually I think this was a bug in GDB not passing the information but 
> using the apostorphe as a directory separator.

Are you saying it works now?

meeroh

-- 
If this message helped you, consider buying an item
from my wish list: <http://web.meeroh.org/wishlist>

in article mwron-051657.16252302092003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 9/2/03 1:25 PM:

> In article <BB7A2EA3.B5DF%kkb@breathsense.com>,
> Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> But I see that I was unclear.  I thought it was just well understood by
>> everyone that the CW8 OS X debugger is relatively useless.
> 
> as compared to what, using GDB.

I meant as compared to debugging the same application using the same 8.3 ide
under OS 9.

>> Viewing global
>> variables is not the only problem.  Only half of the local variables show,
>> and of course this will usually turn out to exclude the ones you need to
>> see, and IIRC (I use it so rarely so I forget whether this was fixed) you
>> can not set breakpoints in certain modules.
> 
> If you can't see breakpoints or variables it probably is an indication
> that your project is too big.

And you want to sound like something besides defensive here?

> There is a limit to the number of
> symbolics we could store and that was not big deal due to the
> limitations of TOC.

TOC limitations specific to OS X that don't create any problems under OS 9?

> However with CW 7.2 people started making larger
> and larger applications as they were not forced to write DLL's and such.
> therefore we seen a lot more complaints.  We have increased the limit to
> something like 4 gig from 65k  so this shouldn't be a problem.

When did you increase this limit?  With CW 9?  And this was an OSX-specific
limit?

>> Everything I described has been acknowledged and discussed on this list and
>> elsewhere.  I was not aware that some people *could* use the debugger, e.g.
>> Scott Ribe apparently is able to view his local variables and can set
>> breakpoints where he needs to set them.
> 
> In all fairness a good program design would not have this problem but I
> understand that customers don't always have this luxury.

Well all the bad design is my fault.  But I don't have many globals.  I have
the powerplant globals.  Everywhere all tolled in all the modules many of
which manage global resources (e.g. MIDI, audio interfaces) and other things
that must be instantiated exactly once, I might have 100 globals.  I use an
object wherever possible and create a single global instantiation of that
object rather than making each of its instance variables a global object.

Regarding functions, most are quite small.  Some get up to 200 lines because
they are full of diagnostic things.  But the ones that fail to display local
variables are often quite small, fitting on the screen easily.  So what is
the problem?

Are you expecting that the "project is too big" problem should NOT have
affected me under OS 9 running the same project?  Because the problems as I
have said is under OS X only.  It sounds to me like you are describing
generic 8.3 problems, which I apparently don't have.

>> So I am waiting for a debugger that works.
> 
> it has always been there,

You need to refer back to some previous messages on this newsgroup.  But I
suppose you are gone.  I was not the only one that found OS X debugging
rather severely compromised.

> and CW 8.3 is very effective, however it does
> not work in the same manner as previous versions.  Most problems are a
> matter of procedural changes.

Never had any of those problems.  Everything I normally use is basically
identical.  Besides I am comparing 8.3 under OS X to 8.3 under OS 9.  There
are no problems under OS 9 debugging the exact same application.  So what
are these TOC problems?  TOC is a PPC thing.  OS 9 is no less PPC than OS X.

> (Hey they bite me too, and it is
> aggravating) or just the differences to Mach-O and how it works.

Are there Mach-O specific problems related to what I am describing?

>> Thanks, but you could help much more by trying to stop development from
>> staying in such a feature-motivated mode when there are so many
>> show-stopping bugs.
> 
> You made my day.   The worry has been that by putting 8 months into
> nothing but quality enhancements and fixing all prioriity one and two
> bugs that our customers would not notice the newer features.
> 
> Bless you !!!!

Glad to help the cause.

But I didn't much in the way of quality enhancements mentioned on the long
long list of features.  That was my point.  That's where you should start if
you want to sell.  People love features, but they love them 2nd.  First we
like things to work.  We do realize you have a hard job on your hands and,
speaking for myself, I am willing to pay for bug fixes, and very unwilling
to pay for a single feature, lacking essential bug fixes.

>> I just want to know when the debuger will work.  I would like to upgrade
>> then.  I was hoping to hear that I had it all wrong and this had been fixed,
>> and then I would happily write my check.  Lacking that I would like to hear
>> that all other develpment will be stopped until the debugger is working.
> 
> The debugger has added features that allows it to work in a manner you
> seem to be desiring.  It lets you to have mammoth files and number of
> files without losing variables or breakpoints.

Please again clarify whether you are talking about fixes compared to the
generic 8.3, which means basically that it wouldn't help me, or if you are
talking about fixes on the OS X host side specifically, in which case it
might help me.

> It has a way now that
> lets you see global and static variables in the local variables pains
> as it used to do with PowerPC programs for many years.

That's a great convenience, but merely a convenience.  If given the choice
between global variables displayed wrong in the local variables pane and
global variables whose values actually show correctly in a separate window,
I'd chose the latter.

I'd like to determine whether it is really worth ordering this thing, and
I'd like you to be just a tad clearer so I can understand what fixes are
likely to help me.  I hope my responses above can help you to further
clarify. 

-Kurt

> 
> Ron

in article mwron-4158FF.11431902092003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 9/2/03 8:43 AM:

> We will include a version of CW 8 IDE that can be used as a standalone
> debugger for Classic Debugging or debugging on OS 9.

This is something I haven't tried likely, thought it didn't work at one
point, but it will become important soon.  Are you saying that I can debug
classic apps while running OS X?  Is this done by running the IDE in classic
mode?

Or when you say "as a standalong debugger" do you mean I get to run the IDE
(for editing) in native (Carbon/Cocoa) mode and only the debugger (and the
app) run in classic.

Thanks,
Kurt

MW Ron  wrote:

>>But I see that I was unclear.  I thought it was just well understood by
>>everyone that the CW8 OS X debugger is relatively useless. 
>
>as compared to what, using GDB. 

Pot shot:

Can CW call arbitrary functions while stopped at a breakpoint? Nope. 
Can CW put breakpoints at arbitrary functions? Nope.

gdb does more (and it can do these from withing PB & xCode as well). :)

Scott Ribe wrote:

> in article BB79584E.B5AD%kkb@breathsense.com, Kurt Bigler at
> kkb@breathsense.com wrote on 09/01/2003 9:10 PM:
> 
> 
>>So what use is any of this if there are no bug fixes, and the OS X is still
>>useless as a debugging platform?
> 
> 
> Say what? I have no problem debugging in OS X with CW 8.3... I no that
> there's a problem with seeing global variables, but that doesn't bother me
> and certainly doesn't make it useless...
> 

I guess you don't use watchpoints, or conditional breakpoints ?

Paul

in article BB7A87FD.B61E%kkb@breathsense.com, Kurt Bigler at
kkb@breathsense.com wrote on 09/02/2003 6:46 PM:

> This is something I haven't tried likely, thought it didn't work at one
> point, but it will become important soon.  Are you saying that I can debug
> classic apps while running OS X?  Is this done by running the IDE in classic
> mode?

Yes.

In article <6Le5b.17869$dk4.580322@typhoon.sonic.net>,
 Paul Russell <prussell@sonic.net> wrote:

> Scott Ribe wrote:
> 
> > Say what? I have no problem debugging in OS X with CW 8.3... I no that
> > there's a problem with seeing global variables, but that doesn't bother me
> > and certainly doesn't make it useless...
> > 
> 
> I guess you don't use watchpoints, or conditional breakpoints ?

While I understand your compaint, watchpoints and conditional breakpoints in GDB 
suck rocks the size of Texas through a pixie straw, and there is little that MW 
can do about it short of chucking GDB and writing their own debugger nub.

(Hmmmmm....!)

meeroh

-- 
If this message helped you, consider buying an item
from my wish list: <http://web.meeroh.org/wishlist>

In article <BB7A87FD.B61E%kkb@breathsense.com>,
 Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:

>in article mwron-4158FF.11431902092003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
>mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 9/2/03 8:43 AM:
>
>> We will include a version of CW 8 IDE that can be used as a standalone
>> debugger for Classic Debugging or debugging on OS 9.
>
>This is something I haven't tried likely, thought it didn't work at one
>point, but it will become important soon.  Are you saying that I can debug
>classic apps while running OS X?  Is this done by running the IDE in classic
>mode?

Yes just launch the 8.3 version as classic.  There was a bug iwth the 
5.0 IDE if you debugged on the boot volume but that was fixed with the 
5.1 IDE with Cw 8.3
>
>Or when you say "as a standalong debugger" do you mean I get to run the IDE
>(for editing) in native (Carbon/Cocoa) mode and only the debugger (and the
>app) run in classic.

CW 9 will use the IDE stripped down to debugging items only and it will 
run in OS 9 for debugging  and read the CW 9 symbolics.

Ron

-- 
         CodeWarrior Development Studio for Macintosh v9
Enhance Your Productivity and Shorten your Development Cycles
                 <http://store.metrowerks.com/> 
        Sales and Support 512-996-5300   800-377-5416     
Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

In article <BB7A645F.B5FF%kkb@breathsense.com>,
 Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:

>I'd like to determine whether it is really worth ordering this thing, and
>I'd like you to be just a tad clearer so I can understand what fixes are
>likely to help me.  I hope my responses above can help you to further
>clarify. 

After further discussion with you in private e-mail I believe that the 
problems you are seeing are not just the normal problems with large 
files or too many symbolics or the other general problems others have 
seen.

I'm going to work with you privately so we can go directly to 
engineering, etc.  and see if this is a bug, and if it is ours, gdb or 
whatever the problem is.  Hopefully we can get something working for you.

Thanks for all the information.

Ron

-- 
         CodeWarrior Development Studio for Macintosh v9
Enhance Your Productivity and Shorten your Development Cycles
                 <http://store.metrowerks.com/> 
        Sales and Support 512-996-5300   800-377-5416     
Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

in article mwron-5078AC.10455103092003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 9/3/03 7:45 AM:

> In article <BB7A87FD.B61E%kkb@breathsense.com>,
> Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:
> 
>> in article mwron-4158FF.11431902092003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
>> mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 9/2/03 8:43 AM:
>> 
>>> We will include a version of CW 8 IDE that can be used as a standalone
>>> debugger for Classic Debugging or debugging on OS 9.
>> 
>> This is something I haven't tried likely, thought it didn't work at one
>> point, but it will become important soon.  Are you saying that I can debug
>> classic apps while running OS X?  Is this done by running the IDE in classic
>> mode?
> 
> Yes just launch the 8.3 version as classic.  There was a bug iwth the
> 5.0 IDE if you debugged on the boot volume but that was fixed with the
> 5.1 IDE with Cw 8.3
>> 
>> Or when you say "as a standalong debugger" do you mean I get to run the IDE
>> (for editing) in native (Carbon/Cocoa) mode and only the debugger (and the
>> app) run in classic.
> 
> CW 9 will use the IDE stripped down to debugging items only and it will
> run in OS 9 for debugging  and read the CW 9 symbolics.

I have to ask my question again.  Maybe you answered it but I couldn't
understand it.  I'm trying hard to be clear here, so I hope you can read
through it carefully...

Can I be editing in the *normal* CW 9 IDE, running as a native
(Carbon/Cocoa) app, and invoke the Debug command from within that native IDE
and as a result cause the stripped-down-debugger-only classic IDE to run,
giving me a debugger window?

If this basically works, are there any weaknesses in this arrangement, ways
that the two IDE's don't play well together?

If not, can the native IDE and the classic debugger still peacfully coexist,
requiring perhaps just an extra step to invoke the debugger (like dropping
the sym file on the classic-debugger-only IDE)?

Thanks,
Kurt

> 
> Ron

in article mwron-645D2B.11274903092003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 9/3/03 8:27 AM:

> In article <BB7A645F.B5FF%kkb@breathsense.com>,
> Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'd like to determine whether it is really worth ordering this thing, and
>> I'd like you to be just a tad clearer so I can understand what fixes are
>> likely to help me.  I hope my responses above can help you to further
>> clarify. 
> 
> After further discussion with you in private e-mail I believe that the
> problems you are seeing are not just the normal problems with large
> files or too many symbolics or the other general problems others have
> seen.

Yes, indeed, it appears I as assuming similarity between my problems and
those others were experiencing, without actually getting the details.  It
was a lot of fun to share with others in blasting CW, but it probably
delayed getting my problem solved!

-Kurt

> I'm going to work with you privately so we can go directly to
> engineering, etc.  and see if this is a bug, and if it is ours, gdb or
> whatever the problem is.  Hopefully we can get something working for you.
> 
> Thanks for all the information.
> 
> Ron

In article <BB7E9CCA.B789%kkb@breathsense.com>,
 Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:


>I have to ask my question again.  Maybe you answered it but I couldn't
>understand it.  I'm trying hard to be clear here, so I hope you can read
>through it carefully...
>
>Can I be editing in the *normal* CW 9 IDE, running as a native
>(Carbon/Cocoa) app, and invoke the Debug command from within that native IDE
>and as a result cause the stripped-down-debugger-only classic IDE to run,
>giving me a debugger window?

No,  you have to generate the debug information (symbolic files) with 
CodeWarrior 9 then you have to launch the CW 8 IDE and open those sym 
files and debug.  Perhaps you could write some Apple Scripting  to do 
this and add it as a menu item, but we don't provide that.

>If this basically works, are there any weaknesses in this arrangement, ways
>that the two IDE's don't play well together?

It doesn't work that way.

>If not, can the native IDE and the classic debugger still peacfully coexist,
>requiring perhaps just an extra step to invoke the debugger (like dropping
>the sym file on the classic-debugger-only IDE)?

That is how it will work. You can have both open at once,  the only 
thing is to be sure you don't mess with the same file or project 

Ron

-- 
         CodeWarrior Development Studio for Macintosh v9
Enhance Your Productivity and Shorten your Development Cycles
                 <http://store.metrowerks.com/> 
        Sales and Support 512-996-5300   800-377-5416     
Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com