🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <timl-ya02408000R1802012346390001@news.demon.co.uk>,
timl@kulath.demon.co.uk (Timothy Lyons) wrote:

> it doesn't explain why BT don't provide a charging rate that is more
> suitable for the users. Just that we don't need yet another rate, and that
> the present arrangement should be good enough.
> 
> It doesn't even say why Demon choose not to allow the calls at the g5 rate
> during the day. Can any demon person answer that?

Erm ... what does this have to do with Macs ?  These questions should
be put to your telecommunications company (probably BT) since it is
they who set the g4 and g5 charges.  Demon have nothing to do with
how much you pay your phone company for calls.

> The problem with the script I have written is that it is not invoked
> whenever the system decides to dial, only when the user chooses to invoke
> the script.

There's no mechanism in the Demon implementation of PPP that
can do different things depending on the current time so you
have to run a script that changes PPP setups depending on the
time.

Simon.
-- 
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk | There's a *reason* why talk.politics.* is
No junk email please.          | unreadable.  It's because people talk about
                               | politics there.
                                                             -- Nathan Tenny

On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:00:57 +0000, Simon Slavin <slavins@hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost> wrote:
>In article <timl-ya02408000R1802012346390001@news.demon.co.uk>,
>timl@kulath.demon.co.uk (Timothy Lyons) wrote:
>
>> it doesn't explain why BT don't provide a charging rate that is more
>> suitable for the users. Just that we don't need yet another rate, and that
>> the present arrangement should be good enough.
>> 
>> It doesn't even say why Demon choose not to allow the calls at the g5 rate
>> during the day. Can any demon person answer that?
>
>Erm ... what does this have to do with Macs ?  These questions should
>be put to your telecommunications company (probably BT) since it is
>they who set the g4 and g5 charges.  Demon have nothing to do with
>how much you pay your phone company for calls.

Indeed and we do allow connection to the g5 numbers during the day, but
restrict it to Demon Premier Connect Plus customers.

-- 
Malcolm S. Muir                               Demon Internet
Sunderland                                    322 Regents Park Road
England                                       London N3 2QQ

Malcolm,
Thanks for the reply, but you don't explain why Demon impose this restriction.

First, this does have to do with Macs, because for PCs there are apparently
a number of DUN (Dial Up Network) managers that will automatically change
the number dialed according to the time of day.  I am not aware of any such
programs available for theMac, so my question was, is there any such
program available.

Second, it does  have to do with Demon, because Demon restrict connection
to g5 numbers during the day. Now, I have no objection to Demon doing this,
Demon make their charging arrangements quite clear, and I am quite happy
with the charges.

However, Malcolm, could you please explain why Demon impose this restriction?

As I see it, BT provide an E&W Surftime customer with a number that I can
call free in E&W, and for something like 1p in the day. Now Demon do not
make this number available during the day to Premier Connect customers,
which gives me an inconvenience because there is no easy automatic way to
choose the phone numbers. As I say, Demon a probably acting quite
rationally and reasonably in  imposing this restriction, but I would like
to know why.

Since BT offer this free/1p tarrif that is not used by Premier Connect
customers, I would like to know on what basis I should make representations
to BT/OFTEL, to explain that this tarrif arrangement is not convenient.

Thanks, Malcolm, as I say, it is not a critisism of Demon (I gather that BT
Intermet have the same arrangement), but I would like to know why.

Tim Lyons. 

In article <slrn991nt1.sqi.malcolm@muir-et5.staff.demon.net>,
malcolm@demon.net wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:00:57 +0000, Simon Slavin
<slavins@hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost> wrote:
>>In article <timl-ya02408000R1802012346390001@news.demon.co.uk>,
>>timl@kulath.demon.co.uk (Timothy Lyons) wrote:
>>
>>> it doesn't explain why BT don't provide a charging rate that is more
>>> suitable for the users. Just that we don't need yet another rate, and that
>>> the present arrangement should be good enough.
>>> 
>>> It doesn't even say why Demon choose not to allow the calls at the g5 rate
>>> during the day. Can any demon person answer that?
>>
>>Erm ... what does this have to do with Macs ?  These questions should
>>be put to your telecommunications company (probably BT) since it is
>>they who set the g4 and g5 charges.  Demon have nothing to do with
>>how much you pay your phone company for calls.
>
>Indeed and we do allow connection to the g5 numbers during the day, but
>restrict it to Demon Premier Connect Plus customers.
>
>-- 
>Malcolm S. Muir                               Demon Internet
>Sunderland                                    322 Regents Park Road
>England                                       London N3 2QQ

On Thu, 01 Mar 2001 22:48:31 +0000, Timothy Lyons <timl@kulath.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Malcolm,
>Thanks for the reply, but you don't explain why Demon impose this restriction.

We can only allocate numbers, we can not control charging or
availability (of the telephone connectivity) by time of day.

Our g5 number gives the ability to remain connected 24 by 7. Whilst we
have no objection to this, it is an expensive service to provide due
to the additional equipment / resources it 'ties up'.

In general it is business users that will make use of 24 by 7
connections so we recover some of the cost of providing the capability
by charging more for those that use it during the working day.

>First, this does have to do with Macs, because for PCs there are apparently
>a number of DUN (Dial Up Network) managers that will automatically change
>the number dialed according to the time of day.  I am not aware of any such
>programs available for theMac, so my question was, is there any such
>program available.

Indeed, but this is not really our 'problem'. Were Macs as popular as
other platforms I have no doubt such software would have appeared
before now.

>Second, it does  have to do with Demon, because Demon restrict connection
>to g5 numbers during the day. Now, I have no objection to Demon doing this,
>Demon make their charging arrangements quite clear, and I am quite happy
>with the charges.
>
>However, Malcolm, could you please explain why Demon impose this restriction?

See above.

>As I see it, BT provide an E&W Surftime customer with a number that I can
>call free in E&W, and for something like 1p in the day. Now Demon do not
>make this number available during the day to Premier Connect customers,
>which gives me an inconvenience because there is no easy automatic way to
>choose the phone numbers. As I say, Demon a probably acting quite
>rationally and reasonably in  imposing this restriction, but I would like
>to know why.

From your comments above a) we have no choice over how the telephone
side 'works' and b) you also point out the deficiency appears to be in
support for your chosen platform.

>Since BT offer this free/1p tarrif that is not used by Premier Connect
>customers, I would like to know on what basis I should make representations
>to BT/OFTEL, to explain that this tarrif arrangement is not convenient.

I would feel that OFTEL will not be interested in simple
'inconvenience'. You can remove the restriction from our end by paying
for a Premier Connect Plus service (an additional 8.24 GBP a month).
You do not need to pay for any BT Surftime discount to use the g5
number (but may find it beneficial to do so).

I do sympathise that the charging schemes in the UK are
unnecessisarily complex to ensure you are getting best value. That
however is not an issue for Demon, we simply try to ensure we allow
access by as many of the available options as possible.

-- 
Malcolm S. Muir                               Demon Internet
Sunderland                                    322 Regents Park Road
England                                       London N3 2QQ

On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:48:31 +0000, Timothy Lyons wrote
(in message <timl-ya02408000R0103012248310001@news.demon.co.uk>):

> First, this does have to do with Macs, because for PCs there are apparently 
> a number of DUN (Dial Up Network) managers that will automatically change 
> the number dialed according to the time of day.  I am not aware of any such 
> programs available for theMac, so my question was, is there any such program 
> available.

You could use Applescript in combination with the Location Manager to do this 
for you I suspect. I hasten to add that I am not an expert in writing 
Applescripts.

-- 
Adrian Chapman

"Life, don't talk to me about life"    (Marvin the Paranoid Android - 
Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy)

Thanks for the reply, Malcolm, but that doesn't really explain why .

I should make it clear that I pay the BT Surftime (e&w) fee.

When you say you charge more for working day access to recover costs, how
do you get more for when I choose to access Demon via the g4 number during
the day?

I can understand that you get more from Demon Premier Connect Plus
customers, but how do you get moe from Demon Premier Connect customers. Do
you just mean that you get more from the cut BT offers from g4 as opposed
to g5 calls?

 

In article <slrn99uspb.vs4.malcolm@muir-et5.staff.demon.net>,
malcolm@demon.net wrote:

>On Thu, 01 Mar 2001 22:48:31 +0000, Timothy Lyons
<timl@kulath.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Malcolm,
>>Thanks for the reply, but you don't explain why Demon impose this restriction.
>
>We can only allocate numbers, we can not control charging or
>availability (of the telephone connectivity) by time of day.

But you do control availability of the connectivity at your end. As I say, why?

>
>Our g5 number gives the ability to remain connected 24 by 7. Whilst we
>have no objection to this, it is an expensive service to provide due
>to the additional equipment / resources it 'ties up'.
>
I quite understand this - we have all got to earn a living!



>In general it is business users that will make use of 24 by 7
>connections so we recover some of the cost of providing the capability
>by charging more for those that use it during the working day.

But you don't appear to charge more if I access you via a g4 number.

>
>>First, this does have to do with Macs, because for PCs there are apparently
>>a number of DUN (Dial Up Network) managers that will automatically change
>>the number dialed according to the time of day.  I am not aware of any such
>>programs available for theMac, so my question was, is there any such
>>program available.
>
>Indeed, but this is not really our 'problem'. Were Macs as popular as
>other platforms I have no doubt such software would have appeared
>before now.
>

Yes, does anyone out there have a better way to do it? As I say, I have a
simple script, but it does not run when a program opens the connecion, only
when I specifically invoke the script, I was hoping for something even more
foolproof.

>>Second, it does  have to do with Demon, because Demon restrict connection
>>to g5 numbers during the day. Now, I have no objection to Demon doing this,
>>Demon make their charging arrangements quite clear, and I am quite happy
>>with the charges.
>>
>>However, Malcolm, could you please explain why Demon impose this restriction?
>
>See above.
>
>>As I see it, BT provide an E&W Surftime customer with a number that I can
>>call free in E&W, and for something like 1p in the day. Now Demon do not
>>make this number available during the day to Premier Connect customers,
>>which gives me an inconvenience because there is no easy automatic way to
>>choose the phone numbers. As I say, Demon a probably acting quite
>>rationally and reasonably in  imposing this restriction, but I would like
>>to know why.
>
>From your comments above a) we have no choice over how the telephone
>side 'works' and b) you also point out the deficiency appears to be in
>support for your chosen platform.
>

But there's nothing wrong with the way the telephone side works, it allows
access to the g5 rate numbers at all times, it is Demon that resricts its
use, for, I am sure good reasons, but what are those reasons?


>>Since BT offer this free/1p tarrif that is not used by Premier Connect
>>customers, I would like to know on what basis I should make representations
>>to BT/OFTEL, to explain that this tarrif arrangement is not convenient.
>
>I would feel that OFTEL will not be interested in simple
>'inconvenience'. You can remove the restriction from our end by paying
>for a Premier Connect Plus service (an additional 8.24 GBP a month).
>You do not need to pay for any BT Surftime discount to use the g5
>number (but may find it beneficial to do so).
>
>I do sympathise that the charging schemes in the UK are
>unnecessisarily complex to ensure you are getting best value. That
>however is not an issue for Demon, we simply try to ensure we allow
>access by as many of the available options as possible.
>
>-- 
>Malcolm S. Muir                               Demon Internet
>Sunderland                                    322 Regents Park Road
>England                                       London N3 2QQ

On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:41:04 +0000, Timothy Lyons <timl@kulath.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Thanks for the reply, Malcolm, but that doesn't really explain why .
>
>I should make it clear that I pay the BT Surftime (e&w) fee.
>
>When you say you charge more for working day access to recover costs, how
>do you get more for when I choose to access Demon via the g4 number during
>the day?

We don't get more, but you have an incentive to 'clear the connection'
and not tie up resource at our end since you are paying 'by the
second'.

>I can understand that you get more from Demon Premier Connect Plus
>customers, but how do you get moe from Demon Premier Connect customers. Do
>you just mean that you get more from the cut BT offers from g4 as opposed
>to g5 calls?

It has nothing to do with 'cuts'. It has everything to do with the
cost of providing dial up equipment.

-- 
Malcolm S. Muir                               Demon Internet
Sunderland                                    322 Regents Park Road
England                                       London N3 2QQ

On Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:42:01 GMT, in <slrn9a9fno.22o.malcolm@muir-et5.staff.demon.net>, Malcolm Muir <malcolm@demon.net> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:41:04 +0000, Timothy Lyons <timl@kulath.demon.co.uk> wrot
> e:
>>
>>Thanks for the reply, Malcolm, but that doesn't really explain why .
>>
>>I should make it clear that I pay the BT Surftime (e&w) fee.
>>
>>When you say you charge more for working day access to recover costs, how
>>do you get more for when I choose to access Demon via the g4 number during
>>the day?
> 
> We don't get more, but you have an incentive to 'clear the connection'
> and not tie up resource at our end since you are paying 'by the
> second'.
> 

I was about to say that using the G5 number would be charged by the second
too, for Premier Connect users, because they only have Surftime Evenings &
Weekends...  Which would mean it'd be nice to let them to connect during the
day to enjoy the slightly cheaper rate..

But of course, then someone could sign up for Surftime Anytime + Demon
Premier Connect, and sit online 24/7....


-- 
David Taylor
davidt.yadt@co.uk
To reply via e-mail: replace .yadt@co. with @yadt.co.

On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:13:42 +0000 (UTC), David Taylor <davidt.yadt@co.uk> wrote:
>On Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:42:01 GMT, in <slrn9a9fno.22o.malcolm@muir-et5.staff.demon.net>, Malcolm Muir <malcolm@demon.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:41:04 +0000, Timothy Lyons <timl@kulath.demon.co.uk> wrot
>> e:
>>>
>>>Thanks for the reply, Malcolm, but that doesn't really explain why .
>>>
>>>I should make it clear that I pay the BT Surftime (e&w) fee.
>>>
>>>When you say you charge more for working day access to recover costs, how
>>>do you get more for when I choose to access Demon via the g4 number during
>>>the day?
>> 
>> We don't get more, but you have an incentive to 'clear the connection'
>> and not tie up resource at our end since you are paying 'by the
>> second'.
>> 
>
>I was about to say that using the G5 number would be charged by the second
>too, for Premier Connect users, because they only have Surftime Evenings &
>Weekends...  Which would mean it'd be nice to let them to connect during the
>day to enjoy the slightly cheaper rate..
>
>But of course, then someone could sign up for Surftime Anytime + Demon
>Premier Connect, and sit online 24/7....

Which is of course exactly what Demon Premier Connect Plus allows
and of course why it costs a premium !

-- 
Malcolm S. Muir                               Demon Internet
Sunderland                                    322 Regents Park Road
England                                       London N3 2QQ