🚀 go-pugleaf

Hugh Browton <ghb@clarity.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]
> I'll call the supplier's tech support later in the week when I can, and
> Apple if I really have to :-(, but I thought I'd also presume upon the mass
> net-tech know-how reserves for a quicker (and probably more useful) answer.

Just a wild stab in the dark - have you tried re-starting with
cmd-opt-shift-delete (to bypass the selected startup disc) rather than
`C' to boot off the CD-ROM?

It might be that you've got one of those Macs that won't run System 7.6
because it came out just before 7.6 and Apple couldn't test it properly;
I gather 7.6.1 will work okay on these machines, but you've got to get
the 7.6.1 CD, rather than install 7.6 and upgrade.

Rowland.

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Following my request last night Roland of Roland and Rebecca posted here
with a couple of ideas. Big thanks to Roland.

Idea 1 (re-starting with cmd-opt-shift-delete) didn't do it. So (Idea 2)
maybe 8600/200 (built in sept 97) doesn't run System 7.6 (built in march
97).

Spoke with supplier, "Ho, hmmmmm, you'll need the System 7.6.1 CD ROM, and
no you can't have it from us cos we don't have it, and we wouldn't let you
borrow it if we did!", and you're stuffed, mate.

Spoke with Apple (32 mins, by no means a record!) "Ho, hmmmmmm, no idea
what that could be, 7.6 should run fine on that machine, try this, try
that, etc.  Aha! your internal drive, fresh from the Apple factory etc, is
a QUANTUM drive (so Apple System Profiler tells us) so that's a third-party
drive, you'll need a new driver from them!"

"But," I reply, weakly, "it's the CD-ROM that's the problem, no?" - "Ah
well, sir, you try Quantum for a new driver and see where that gets you." 

Quantum, of course, are behind veil of silence as the trans-atlantic link
is down.

Perhaps Mac OS 8 won't be long in coming from Ireland and I can skip 7.6.n.
Or perhaps the OS8 ROM won't work either....

Ideas still welcome. I'll keep you posted.


TIA

Hugh Browton

Hugh Browton <ghb@clarity.co.uk> wrote:

> Spoke with Apple (32 mins, by no means a record!) "Ho, hmmmmmm, no idea
> what that could be, 7.6 should run fine on that machine, try this, try
> that, etc.  Aha! your internal drive, fresh from the Apple factory etc, is
> a QUANTUM drive (so Apple System Profiler tells us) so that's a third-party
> drive, you'll need a new driver from them!"

Apple really excelling themselves here :-(

> Ideas still welcome. I'll keep you posted.

Not exactly a solution, but if you have access to another Mac, you might
be able to create a universal system folder "for any Macintosh" which
could then be copied to the 8600.

Chris.

In article <B0DFFE8E9668A7B32@0.0.0.0>,
ghb@clarity.co.uk (Hugh Browton) wrote:

> Spoke with Apple (32 mins, by no means a record!) "Ho, hmmmmmm, no idea
> what that could be, 7.6 should run fine on that machine, try this, try
> that, etc.  Aha! your internal drive, fresh from the Apple factory etc, is
> a QUANTUM drive (so Apple System Profiler tells us) so that's a third-party
> drive, you'll need a new driver from them!"

This is Apple talking complete rubbish. If it's an Apple supplied drive
then Apple's formatter will cope with it. Quantum make the drives, but
Apple customise them with their own ROMs (You can check - the drive will
have a little sticker on it saying 'ROMS Copyright Apple 1996' or something
like that.)

You need a 7.6.1 CD-ROM, and your supplier (I'd expect) or Apple should
supply you one at minimal cost.

My source (NewerTech's GURU 2.5.1) says the 8600/200 was introduced in
February 1997. System 7.6 came out then too, or very shortly afterwards.
This means that standard 7.6 won't install on the 8600/200, and it was
tested and delivered with a slightly modified 7.5.5.

You could just give in and buy a copy of 7.6.1.

Paul Durrant

Paul Durrant <pdurrant@durrant.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <B0DFFE8E9668A7B32@0.0.0.0>,
> ghb@clarity.co.uk (Hugh Browton) wrote:
> 
> > Spoke with Apple (32 mins, by no means a record!) "Ho, hmmmmmm, no idea
> > what that could be, 7.6 should run fine on that machine, try this, try
> > that, etc.  Aha! your internal drive, fresh from the Apple factory etc, is
> > a QUANTUM drive (so Apple System Profiler tells us) so that's a third-party
> > drive, you'll need a new driver from them!"
> 
> This is Apple talking complete rubbish. If it's an Apple supplied drive
> then Apple's formatter will cope with it. Quantum make the drives, but
> Apple customise them with their own ROMs (You can check - the drive will
> have a little sticker on it saying 'ROMS Copyright Apple 1996' or something
> like that.)

Indeed - I've just tried Apple System Profiler on my Mac, and it says
the internal HDD is made by Quantum; it's certainly an Apple drive which
has been formatted by HD SC Setup (you'll be wanting to use Driver
Setup, I expect).

You can confirm this (probably) to an extent by getting hold of a little
application called SCSI Spy (if you can't find it in network land, I can
email it - it's under 44K) which will extract all sorts of information
from your HD, including some which reads `Apple Computer Inc' if it's an
Apple drive.

If I were you, I'd ring Apple again (I know, the time, the expense, but
bear with me half a sec) and see if you can get put through to someone
with at least half a brain - explain what you were told last time,
explain your puzzlement etc., and so on.  Maybe you'll get somewhere...

> You need a 7.6.1 CD-ROM, and your supplier (I'd expect) or Apple should
> supply you one at minimal cost.

At which point you might try asking about *this* idea - see if you can
get 7.6.1 somehow.

I recall having problems with my Performa 475 (can't remember quite
what) and I spend *ages* on the 'phone to Apple, eventually chatting to
someone who knew what he was on about but couldn't solve the problem.  A
few days later, quite out of the blue, unexpected, unasked for and
unannounced, a jiffy bag containing System B-7.1P5 (all 12 floppy discs)
arrived in the hands of nice Mr Postman.

So whilst they might be as much use as a chocolate teapot when you're on
the 'phone to them, sometimes nice things happen afterwards.

> My source (NewerTech's GURU 2.5.1) says the 8600/200 was introduced in
> February 1997. System 7.6 came out then too, or very shortly afterwards.
> This means that standard 7.6 won't install on the 8600/200, and it was
> tested and delivered with a slightly modified 7.5.5.
> 
> You could just give in and buy a copy of 7.6.1.

Which might even work out cheaper than another 35 minute 'phone call...

Rowland.

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Thanks to Chris, Paul & Roland again for their help, suggestions and
support. For a one-man band (me) the time you are spending on thinking and
typing is very much appreciated!

This morning I went and had a look in the Tech Info archive at www.apple.
Brilliant resource, and much clearer than the not with-it Apple UK support
guy yesterday. As suspected the fact that Quantum built the drive is
irrelevant.

Yup, the 8600/200 shipped with 7.5.5, sometimes (in the US at least) with a
voucher for an upgrade to 7.6.1. The 8600/200 does *not* run 7.6.

But it will run a system from the Zip, and as Chris suggested I could
create a universal system and either run from the Zip or copy it to the
8600's HD.

So....if I feel upto it and I have time (and a fresh mug of tea) I'll call
Apple and try to get them to send me a 7.6.1 (British) CD-ROM....

And...load a universal 7.6.1 onto a Zip disk, and try to run from that. If
that works I'll copy the system to the 8600 HD and give that a whirl.

I want to run the 8600 with 7.5.1 (cos I know it) and then wait until I've
got a quiet week before getting to grips with the upgrade and re-loads for
System 8.  (And then I can do it all over again to go to 8.1.... yipeeeee!)

Thanks everyone, I'll let you know.....


Hugh Browton

Further to my posting of this AM, I have succeeded in creating a System
7.6.1 Zip, amd making it the start-up disk for the 8600. Bingo!

I then copied the System Folder to the 8600 HD and spent several re-starts
trying to get the old system folder to STAY unblessed! - WHich in the end I
did by trashing the System and Finder files from System 7.5.5 (so going
back   will be tricky...)

Anyway, 8600 is now running 7.6.1.

Next step - start moving stuff across to it..

Perhaps tomorrow.

Best regards to all readers

Hugh Browton

Hugh Browton <ghb@clarity.co.uk> wrote:

> Further to my posting of this AM, I have succeeded in creating a System
> 7.6.1 Zip, amd making it the start-up disk for the 8600. Bingo!
> 
> I then copied the System Folder to the 8600 HD and spent several re-starts
> trying to get the old system folder to STAY unblessed! - WHich in the end I
> did by trashing the System and Finder files from System 7.5.5 (so going
> back   will be tricky...)

Oh dear - if only you'd posted here first :-/  There's a nice little
utility available from *somewhere* on Apple's web site called `System
picker' which lets you choose which System Folder you want to use.  I'm
using it at the moment on my Mac Plus - it lets me keep System 6.0.8,
7.0.1, and 7.1 on the HD all at the same time (which doesn't leave much
change out of 20MB, I can tell you).  Why such perversity?  Well, I'm
fiddling around trying to find which OS is most suitable for actually
*using* a Mac Plus - is 7.0.1 any faster than 7.1?  More efficient?
Will any software actually *run* under 6.0.8?

> Anyway, 8600 is now running 7.6.1.

Deep joy :-)

Rowland.

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real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar (Rebecca and wrote:

>> You could just give in and buy a copy of 7.6.1.
>
>Which might even work out cheaper than another 35 minute 'phone call...

No need for anything as drastic as buying it:

http://swupdates.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/lister.pl?Apple.Support.Area/Apple.Software.Updates/Worldwide/Macintosh


Just as long as you don't want to run OT1.1.2 ...

Ben

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Rebecca and Rowland <real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar>
wrote:
[]
> Oh dear - if only you'd posted here first :-/  There's a nice little
> utility available from *somewhere* on Apple's web site called `System
> picker' which lets you choose which System Folder you want to use. 

You can also use it to switch between different localised system
folders. It's amazing how easy it is to use a Mac running, say, French
or Swedish systems[1], 'tho Kanji is a bit harder (All the menu items
are still in the same place, even if they are in Kanji)

rgds, Alan
[1] and you learn expressions like "Tom Papperskorgen", which
is Swedish for "empty the wastebasket", and might come in handy
next time you're in Stockholm..... :-)

Rebecca and Rowland <real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar>
wrote:

> Well, I'm
> fiddling around trying to find which OS is most suitable for actually
> *using* a Mac Plus - is 7.0.1 any faster than 7.1?  More efficient?
> Will any software actually *run* under 6.0.8?

I've settled on 6.0.8 for my Plus, which runs an early version of
Think C perfectly, and reboots very quickly when I get something wrong.
To my mind, 7.1 is better than 7.0.1 but they are both too slow to be
fun on a Plus.

-- 
'ric

Ben Lovejoy <ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar (Rebecca and wrote:
> 
> >> You could just give in and buy a copy of 7.6.1.
> >
> >Which might even work out cheaper than another 35 minute 'phone call...
> 
> No need for anything as drastic as buying it:
> 
>http://swupdates.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/lister.pl?Apple.Support.Area/Ap
ple.Software.Updates/Worldwide/Macintosh

The problem with this is that it's an *update*, which means you need to
install System 7.6 in the first place.  The original problem was an
inability to install System 7.6, in which case the updater can't help.

Rowland.

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Dear All

"Tom Papperskorgen" heh? - along with "Videz la poubelle", these are the
reasons I use a Mac!

Yes, using System Picker would have been a neat idea. I'll go look it out
"just in case".

(Yup, it was a serial bootstrap job, first load 7.6 onto a Zip disk on my
7100, then upgrade to 7.6.1, then check if anything else was needed from
the 8600's 7.5.5 extension and CP set for it to work, copy across, persuade
machine to start from Zip, etc etc etc . Anyway, it's done now!)

Regards to all

Hugh Browton

Hugh Browton <ghb@clarity.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> (Yup, it was a serial bootstrap job, first load 7.6 onto a Zip disk on my
> 7100, then upgrade to 7.6.1, then check if anything else was needed from
> the 8600's 7.5.5 extension and CP set for it to work, copy across, persuade
> machine to start from Zip, etc etc etc . Anyway, it's done now!)

Just one thing - you might find it useful to replace the System 7.6 PC
Exchange control panel (which doesn't work properly with all PC discs)
with the System 7.5 version (which does).

Rowland.

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real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar (Rebecca and wrote:

>> >> You could just give in and buy a copy of 7.6.1.

>> No need for anything as drastic as buying it:
>> 
>>http://swupdates.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/lister.pl?Apple.Support.Area/Ap
>ple.Software.Updates/Worldwide/Macintosh

>The problem with this is that it's an *update*, which means you need to
>install System 7.6 in the first place.  The original problem was an
>inability to install System 7.6, in which case the updater can't help.

Ah, there's no free update from 7.5.x to 7.6, then?

Ben

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Ben Lovejoy <ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar (Rebecca and wrote:
> 
> >> >> You could just give in and buy a copy of 7.6.1.
> 
> >> No need for anything as drastic as buying it:
> >> 
> >>http://swupdates.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/lister.pl?Apple.Support.Area/Ap
> >ple.Software.Updates/Worldwide/Macintosh
> 
> >The problem with this is that it's an *update*, which means you need to
> >install System 7.6 in the first place.  The original problem was an
> >inability to install System 7.6, in which case the updater can't help.
> 
> Ah, there's no free update from 7.5.x to 7.6, then?

No.

Rowland.

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I've been more busy (thank you clients), so this is the first catch up for
a week or so...

I did look for System Picker at the ? MIT archives but couldn't find it, so
if anyone has an address for it, I'd be pleased to hear it.

I'll also do the swap for the PC Exchange CP as I do get PC disks in from
time to time.

Thank you

Hugh

Hugh Browton <ghb@clarity.co.uk> wrote:

> I've been more busy (thank you clients), so this is the first catch up for
> a week or so...
> 
> I did look for System Picker at the ? MIT archives but couldn't find it, so
> if anyone has an address for it, I'd be pleased to hear it.

The only place you can get it from is *Apple* - have a look at
http://www.apple.com.  If you can't find it, email me and I can email
you a copy - it's only small (about 18K compressed).

Rowland.

[snip]


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