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9 messages
9 total messages Started by Mike Mon, 16 Jun 1997 00:00
Synergy Computer Systems - Bad Trader Alert
#30
Author: Mike
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 00:00
164 lines
9927 bytes
Bad Trader Alert
================

This posting will be made periodically to these groups to warn people of
the following company, until this matter is resolved. To ignore further
copies of this posting, killfile the subject "Synergy Computer Systems - 
Bad Trader Alert". If this post is inappropriate in this group, I apologise,
no need for spam or flames, a short note will suffice.

Trader:

Synergy Computer Systems
Balsall Common
Kenilworth

In October 1996, I asked for a quotation on a P166 Cyrix complete system from
this company. Ever since, I have been having to contact them, and then
subsequently Trading Standards to try and get the deal completed as agreed.
I took delivery, and paid in full by cheque on November 8th. 

o I was quoted for, and ordered a Midi Tower. I received a Mini Tower. On
  my order I stated 2 free 5.25" bays *after* installation of CDROM, for 
  peripherals I wanted to fit. I ended up with only one free. The company
  claim that this is indeed a Midi tower, as ordered. In another call I 
  was told that the definitions are 2x5.25 - mini, 3x - midi 4x - full.

o The motherboard is claimed in their quotation to upgrade to 512k cache.
  The manual supplied with it states that, for the chips I have installed,
  it is in 256k *only* configuration. There is no COAST socket. The cache
  is soldered in. How is this upgradeable? This is "misdescribed goods".
  TSO investigating.

o Driver disks for the CDROM, Video card, motherboard were missing. I asked
  about these and time of collection, and was told they would be sent to me.
 
o All of the front panel controls, LED's, switches etc. were left
  unconnected. Thankfully, I had the motherboard manual to rectify this, but
  this should have been done at build time, surely? How sloppy!

o The hard drive supplied was faulty. This was where the trouble really began.
  I tried to fdisk/format DOS partitions into it, and this failed quite
  badly about 90% into a partition. 

  I phoned them to report this, and was told that the 2 Gig EIDE drive
  supplied wasn't actually faulty, but it was a BIOS bug, and that all drives
  would do this. I pointed out it was in LBA mode, and that Linux, which
  doesn't use the BIOS, also chokes on it, with errors like "Sector ID not
  found". Then they said "Well, can't you just mark the sectors as bad and
  ignore it?". Modern EIDE drives don't show bad sectors, as they remap bad
  areas. This was showing 1 Megabyte plus of bad sectors!

  They finally acknowledged it might be faulty, and promised next day swap
  out.  After many phone calls, excuses, and missed appointments [RunAround
  V1.0 (tm)] to meet and exchange the item this was exchanged on November
  26th, It only took threatening to buy a replacement at retail price and
  take action to recover the cost, or alternatively to return the entire
  machine to get this!

o On 14th January, I faxed them to report that the CD drive supplied, after
  finally getting drivers off the net, was possibly faulty. It was a CD620E
  Creative Labs. It was extremeley slow at changing tracks, and was really
  noisy, you know, "grind, whirr" noisy. I was told that this was fine, and
  not to worry, as long as it still worked.

o I also queried driver disks - after Trading Standards got involved, they
  sent through the video card driver disks. Now I still can't use the card
  in accelerated modes under Windows or Linux, as every time the accelerated
  "move region" feature fires (drag a window etc.), any data to or from my
  soundcard is blitzed. I've subsequently found it appears to hog the PCI
  bus so that realtime audio is impossible. So I've got a 765 running in 800
  by 600, when I should have 1280x1024. They disclaim responsibility, as
  they don't support Linux. Fair enough, but it doesn't work under Windows!

  They did agree (in writing) to exchange for another card, but couldn't say
  on compatibility. So I sent them a list of Linux compatible cards which I
  would be willing to accept in exchange. Still no reply.

o Motherboard flash-setup disk for the motherboard was not supplied. The
  story here has gone from "We'll send it you", to "We don't send them out,
  because you might damage things", to "We can't send it out, there's no such
  disk for that model". I can't get a contact number for the manufacturer
  out of them, so I can't verify any of the above. (KTX 8500TVX motherboard)

o Terms And Conditions - I had to fight tooth and nail to get a copy of
  these. I see the reluctance to send me them - although for a consumer sale,
  they seem to remove statutory rights over your right to return the goods.

  "The buyer shall not be able to reject the Products after delivery
  except for those not in accordance with the contract"

  This is apparently illegal, and the Office of Fair Trading are looking at 
  this. 

  They also tried to wriggle out of this by stating it was a company (trade)
  transaction. This is because I work for Code For Effect Ltd, and they know
  the machine is also being used for business use. However, the machine is my
  personal property, paid for out of my money, on a personal cheque. The
  order was placed on private letterheaded paper. It is in no way a company
  to company transaction. They insisted to TSO that it was, and that they
  should have no interest in this matter!

o Warranty - not worth the paper it is printed on. In addition to it being
  printed on my invoice, I have a letter confirming that the warranty is
  "for one year, return to base, from date of invoice".

  So when the CD drive finally failed - skipped on audio CDs, then finally
  didn't bother spinning them at all, I sent it back. (19th April 97). They
  agreed to send a replacement. No replacement yet ...

  Repeated phone calls have been met with "Can't get spare drives". They are
  supposed to be a computer supply company. No CD drives at all for 2 months?
  Excellent warranty. All I want is what I paid for -- a working quad or hex
  speed EIDE drive.

  When TSO asked for an update on the situation, and checked with Synergy
  what was happening about the CD drive, and why so long, they were told
  that it was not outstanding. Well, I think it is, seeing as I have no
  CD ROM drive still!

o Additionally, the power supply fan failed - making an awful sound during
  the night. The machine is only 7 months old! This has been replaced at my
  cost, as I can't face having to argue the toss with them over whether it is
  actually broken or not.

o CE approval? What's that? Well, after having to ring around to find out
  about what the system was, try and get disks etc. I discovered that the
  sale of non CE approved cases on new systems was illegal since 1-Jan-96.
  My case is a cheap no-name case. No name, no CE approval. Nothing. Illegal.

  So that's why BBC2 has herringbone patterns, and you can't get 100.7 Heart
  FM. with the machine on :( Seriously, this is a breach of EMC regulations,
  and is also being investigated by the TSO.

Previously, I had to wait from 7th September to 23rd November for a 28.8k
modem that I had paid for (again, paid in full at time of order). I was told
on one occasion that it was ready to collect - went over - nothing. "Oops,
we thought it was ..." Finally, after phone calls, letters, visits, they told
me that it was with their suppliers, they just hadn't got round to collecting
it yet. I then had to contact their suppliers and ask where the modem was - 
they'd had it sitting waiting to be collected for ages. They posted it out to
me direct, with an apology on behalf of Synergy, and I had it next day.

Of the above items, I'm resigned to the fact that their support is zero, and
that the best I can hope for is a replacement CD rom drive eventually, or
a taking them to the small claims court for the value of one. The other
offences the TSO are willing to follow up independently.

All in all, they are a very unresponsive company, and have repeatedly lied to
myself and Trading Standards about these issues. I would urge people not to
do business with them unless they understand that a company offering good
(cheap) quotation may not necessarily be the best company to deal with.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Brown                        Personal:      mjb @ pootle.     .co.  
C++ Consultant, Code For Effect Ltd      Work: c4effect @        demon    uk
----------- Current project: dK - The Wargame the professionals use ---------

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Brown                        Personal:      mjb @ pootle.     .co.  
C++ Consultant, Code For Effect Ltd      Work: c4effect @        demon    uk
----------- Current project: dK - The Wargame the professionals use ---------
Re: Synergy Computer Systems - Bad Trader Alert
#31
Author: Michael Salem
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 00:00
17 lines
1518 bytes
Re: Bad Trader Alert
<I bought a computer and had endless trouble> 

If buying from an unkown supplier, use a credit card; the CC company by law 
takes responsibility for many problems, and will back you up.

The CC company is useful to apply pressure to the supplier. If this fails 
and you want to get your money back from them, I understand they try to 
wriggle out.

HTH,
-- 
Michael Salem
From RFC1855, Netiquette Guidelines:
- Content of a follow-up post should exceed quoted content.
- signature: keep it short. no longer than 4 lines.
Re: Synergy Computer Systems - Bad Trader Alert
#32
Author: Gordon Hunter
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:00
22 lines
1800 bytes
In article <866499666snz@michaels.demon.co.uk>, Michael Salem <4ms2u$ms@
michaels.demon.co.uk> writes
>Re: Bad Trader Alert
><I bought a computer and had endless trouble> 
>
>If buying from an unkown supplier, use a credit card; the CC company by law 
>takes responsibility for many problems, and will back you up.

Will they hell! We all know that they are SUPPOSED to do this but they
try their damned best not to get involved. I tried this with Nat West
Access a few years ago and was firmly told that if I was willing to give
my credit card number to a mail order company without seeing the goods,
that was my problem..... Needless to say I no longer have a Nat West
Access card!

-- 
Gordon Hunter
Flamers, p**s takers, etc. save your time.
You won't wind me up. I won't waste time replying.
You'll just be ignored!
NO JUNK MAIL EITHER PLEASE!
Re: Synergy Computer Systems - Bad Trader Alert
#33
Author: Mike
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:00
28 lines
2264 bytes
In article <866499666snz@michaels.demon.co.uk>,
Michael Salem <4ms2u$ms@michaels.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Re: Bad Trader Alert
><I bought a computer and had endless trouble> 
>
>If buying from an unkown supplier, use a credit card; the CC company by law 
>takes responsibility for many problems, and will back you up.
>
>The CC company is useful to apply pressure to the supplier. If this fails 
>and you want to get your money back from them, I understand they try to 
>wriggle out.

A valid point - I do not have a CC unfortunately. Apparently the correct
course of action (according to TSO) was to reject the goods at an early
stage, and not use them until satisfied, as they were incomplete and faulty

This would still have left me with a) needing to get a full refund, although 
on much stronger legal ground, and b) needing to replace the returned 
computer, at a higher price.

Still, these points learnt for next time round ....

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Brown                        Personal:      mjb @ pootle.     .co.  
C++ Consultant, Code For Effect Ltd      Work: c4effect @        demon    uk
----------- Current project: dK - The Wargame the professionals use ---------
Re: Synergy Computer Systems - Bad Trader Alert
#34
Author: Andy Flisher
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:00
16 lines
1609 bytes
In article <$b1zcDAVWrpzEwLu@ultimate.demon.co.uk>, Gordon Hunter
<gordon@ultimate.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>Will they hell! We all know that they are SUPPOSED to do this but they
>try their damned best not to get involved. I tried this with Nat West
>Access a few years ago and was firmly told that if I was willing to give
>my credit card number to a mail order company without seeing the goods,
>that was my problem..... Needless to say I no longer have a Nat West
>Access card!
>
Can I Have it then?
-- 
Andy Flisher                    http://www.flish.demon.co.uk

Not Born, but Boro bred         Mail:-  Boro@flish.demon.co.uk
Re: Synergy Computer Systems - Bad Trader Alert
#35
Author: Michael Salem
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:00
38 lines
2594 bytes
I suggested: 
"If buying from an unkown supplier, use a credit card; the CC company by law 
"takes responsibility for many problems, and will back you up.

Gordon Hunter responded:
"Will they hell! We all know that they are SUPPOSED to do this but they
"try their damned best not to get involved. I tried this with Nat West
"Access a few years ago 

I don't know if things have changed, but I personally have known a 
complaint to a credit card company to make a very sharp improvement. 
Perhaps if your approach "can you please intercede" is rebuffed, you should
say "this company has failed me, can you please take responsibility and 
refund my money AS YOU ARE REQUIRED TO DO BY LAW". They won't easily refund
your money, but it will remind them that a letter to the (would-be) 
supplier of goods is cheap and easy for them...

"and was firmly told that if I was willing to give
"my credit card number to a mail order company without seeing the goods,
"that was my problem.

If they actually said this and could be quoted, you'd revolutionise
retailing or/and kill Nat West Access as a viable credit card. Mail order
is big business.

by the way, this is valid for true CREDIT (e.g., Nat West Access) cards, 
but not for debit cards (Switch, Connect).

 "Needless to say I no longer have a Nat West Access card!
I hope they know one of your reasons for taking your business elsewhere. 


-- 
Michael Salem
From RFC1855, Netiquette Guidelines:
- Content of a follow-up post should exceed quoted content.
- signature: keep it short. no longer than 4 lines.
Re: Synergy Computer Systems - Bad Trader Alert
#36
Author: Oz
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:00
36 lines
2746 bytes
In article <$b1zcDAVWrpzEwLu@ultimate.demon.co.uk>, Gordon Hunter
<gordon@ultimate.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <866499666snz@michaels.demon.co.uk>, Michael Salem <4ms2u$ms@
>michaels.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Re: Bad Trader Alert
>><I bought a computer and had endless trouble> 
>>
>>If buying from an unkown supplier, use a credit card; the CC company by law 
>>takes responsibility for many problems, and will back you up.
>
>Will they hell! We all know that they are SUPPOSED to do this but they
>try their damned best not to get involved. I tried this with Nat West
>Access a few years ago and was firmly told that if I was willing to give
>my credit card number to a mail order company without seeing the goods,
>that was my problem..... Needless to say I no longer have a Nat West
>Access card!

I have achieved refunds on several occasions, but you have to be
persistant. You should keep notes of what you agreed (if possible FAX a
confirmation in the first place setting down YOUR terms) and write (not
phone) at regular intervals to the INDIVIDUAL at the CC company. It's
also best to FAX or write to the firm you are in dispute with.

Note that non-replying firms can easily be caught by a letter along the
lines of "I will be returning your product to you for a complete refund
unless you reply stating valid reasons why I should not within 14 days"
and cc'ing it to your contact in the CC company. This is also very
helpful if you end up taking them to the small claims court.

In short ranting and raving is not very effective, but a well thought
out campaign is quite entertaining and more rewarding in the end.

-- 
'Oz     "Is it better to seem ignorant and learn,
         - or seem wise and stay ignorant?"
Re: Synergy Computer Systems - Bad Trader Alert [Update]
#28
Author: Terrance Richard Boyes
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 00:00
21 lines
2251 bytes
Mike (mjb@i_am_at_pootle_dot_demon.co.uk) wrote:

Not read the RFCs???
> 
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Brown                        Personal:      mjb @ pootle.     .co.  
> C++ Consultant, Code For Effect Ltd      Work: c4effect @        demon    uk
> ----------- Current project: dK - The Wargame the professionals use ---------
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Brown                        Personal:      mjb @ pootle.     .co.  
> C++ Consultant, Code For Effect Ltd      Work: c4effect @        demon    uk
> ----------- Current project: dK - The Wargame the professionals use ---------

Typical consultant, can't even set up his sig.

-- 
<URL:http://www.pierrot.co.uk/>                                     Team AMIGA
You will be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize--posthumously.
Re: Synergy Computer Systems - Bad Trader Alert [Update]
#29
Author: Mike
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 00:00
28 lines
2188 bytes
In article <9707051715.2zq2@pierrot.co.uk>,
Terrance Richard Boyes  <tez@pierrot.co.uk> wrote:

>Not read the RFCs???

Which ones? There's quite a few you know. 

If you mean an overlong site name, this is to stop idiots auto spamming 
me every time I post. Seems to work in that respect ... 

>Typical consultant, can't even set up his sig.

A simple error, including a sig in the text of a preformatted message into a 
news reader which appends a sig anyway. Good of you to use a sample size of 
precisely one, in an unrelated field, as a representative example of my C++ 
coding skills and consultants in general. Nice logic there. Not too general 
or anything ...

You must've missed the "Content-Type: None" in the header of your posting.

HTH.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Brown                        Personal:      mjb @ pootle.     .co.  
C++ Consultant, Code For Effect Ltd      Work: c4effect @        demon    uk
----------- Current project: dK - The Wargame the professionals use ---------
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