🚀 go-pugleaf

dk@cadvision.com wrote:
> No amway is not for every one but the only 5% of the population makes
> over 70000 a year

The problem with Amway is not the products, it is the cult around "the 
business".   Amway people become sub-humans controlled by the mother 
ship.   Star Trek explains this through the Borg.

Duncan Ritchie <Duncan.Ritchie@HQIMS.ssc.ssc-asc.x400.gc.ca> wrote:

>dk@cadvision.com wrote:
>> No amway is not for every one but the only 5% of the population makes
>> over 70000 a year

>The problem with Amway is not the products, it is the cult around "the 
>business".   Amway people become sub-humans controlled by the mother 
>ship.   Star Trek explains this through the Borg.
you say cult ...is that cult or occult .Please tell me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Duncan Ritchie <Duncan.Ritchie@HQIMS.ssc.ssc-asc.x400.gc.ca> wrote:

>dk@cadvision.com wrote:
>> No amway is not for every one but the only 5% of the population makes
>> over 70000 a year

>The problem with Amway is not the products, it is the cult around "the 
>business".   Amway people become sub-humans controlled by the mother 
>ship.   Star Trek explains this through the Borg.
Is that cult or occult or do you know?

Duncan Ritchie <Duncan.Ritchie@HQIMS.ssc.ssc-asc.x400.gc.ca> wrote:

>dk@cadvision.com wrote:
>> No amway is not for every one but the only 5% of the population makes
>> over 70000 a year

>The problem with Amway is not the products, it is the cult around "the 
>business".   Amway people become sub-humans controlled by the mother 
>ship.   Star Trek explains this through the Borg.
is that like your job...your boss tells you when to show up ,when you
go on vacation. 


the boss is the borg.....sorry duncan

Yes, it is true I work for a living.  Of coarse, my hours are flexible. 
And I enjoy the satisfaction of contributing to a better society.  I
only have to work one job to earn money to allow me to live well. 
Unlike all the Amway people I have met - who all seem to have two jobs;
one to make money and the other to make someone else money -
unfortunately they don't know which is which.  One of the nice things
about the conventional 9 to 5 is that I get to choose my weekends.  I go
places that I want to go.  Poor Amway people; they have to go on all
these so called business trips.    I also choose my friends myself.  I
really like this.  They are all different.  Some smoke, some drink, some
don't do either.  Some really like watching TV; some, like me, prefer
live theatre.  We are all so different.  I feel bad for Amway people,
they don't choose their friends.  You are either Amway; or not.  That is
true for the family too.  I am really annoyed when I see Amway people
take advantage of their families.  That is terrible.

Anyway, this issue has nothing to do with WOMEN and MONEY, so I won't
waste any more of our time.

dk@cadvision.com wrote:
> 
> Duncan Ritchie <Duncan.Ritchie@HQIMS.ssc.ssc-asc.x400.gc.ca> wrote:
> 
> >dk@cadvision.com wrote:
> >> No amway is not for every one but the only 5% of the population makes
> >> over 70000 a year
> 
> >The problem with Amway is not the products, it is the cult around "the
> >business".   Amway people become sub-humans controlled by the mother
> >ship.   Star Trek explains this through the Borg.
> is that like your job...your boss tells you when to show up ,when you
> go on vacation.
> 
> the boss is the borg.....sorry duncan

dk@cadvision.com wrote:

> iN WHAT WAY DUNCAN??? wHAT CULT LIKE HABITS DO WE DISPLAY??
> 
> OR DO WE HAVE SOME STRANGE SORT OF RELIGIOUS BELIEF?
> 
> WHY WOULD FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES HOOK UP WITH A CULT?

I don't know, but some Fortune 500 companies supported Dan Quayle and
Newt Gingrich, and many of them supported Reagan's voodoo economics --
so I guess they do support cults.

dk@cadvision.com wrote:
> 
> David Reilley <dreilley@pinc.com> wrote:
> 
> >dk@cadvision.com wrote:

> >> WHY WOULD FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES HOOK UP WITH A CULT?
> 
> >I don't know, but some Fortune 500 companies supported Dan Quayle and
> >Newt Gingrich, and many of them supported Reagan's voodoo economics --
> >so I guess they do support cults.

> would you please explain?  In what way are we a cult??? are you sure
> its not occult??

I never said YOU are a cult.  READ THE THREAD, MAN>

You asked "Why would Fortune 500 companies hook up with a cult?"  I
simply pointed out that they have a record of doing so.  Didn't say a
word about you -- whoever "you" is.  Take a pill, DUDE.

Duncan Ritchie <Duncan.Ritchie@HQIMS.ssc.ssc-asc.x400.gc.ca> wrote:

>Yes, it is true I work for a living.  Of coarse, my hours are flexible. 
>And I enjoy the satisfaction of contributing to a better society.  I
>only have to work one job to earn money to allow me to live well. 
>Unlike all the Amway people I have met - who all seem to have two jobs;
>one to make money and the other to make someone else money -
>unfortunately they don't know which is which.  One of the nice things
>about the conventional 9 to 5 is that I get to choose my weekends.  I go
>places that I want to go.  Poor Amway people; they have to go on all
>these so called business trips.    I also choose my friends myself.  I
>really like this.  They are all different.  Some smoke, some drink, some
>don't do either.  Some really like watching TV; some, like me, prefer
>live theatre.  We are all so different.  I feel bad for Amway people,
>they don't choose their friends.  You are either Amway; or not.  That is
>true for the family too.  I am really annoyed when I see Amway people
>take advantage of their families.  That is terrible.

>Anyway, this issue has nothing to do with WOMEN and MONEY, so I won't
>waste any more of our time.

>dk@cadvision.com wrote:
>> 
>> Duncan Ritchie <Duncan.Ritchie@HQIMS.ssc.ssc-asc.x400.gc.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> >dk@cadvision.com wrote:
>> >> No amway is not for every one but the only 5% of the population makes
>> >> over 70000 a year
>> 
>> >The problem with Amway is not the products, it is the cult around "the
>> >business".   Amway people become sub-humans controlled by the mother
>> >ship.   Star Trek explains this through the Borg.
>> is that like your job...your boss tells you when to show up ,when you
>> go on vacation.
>> 
>> the boss is the borg.....sorry duncan
duncan....you called amway a cult but cannot back it up...It sounds
like you donot know what you are talking about.

How are you contributing to society? seems when you retire you will be
DEPENDANT as I dought you are banking 10% in a job situation.
As for your 8 grand income tax you pay does little to pay out the
debt. How is watching TV contributung to society??I

Personally I do not need the drinking and smoking in a family
environment

sorry duncan sounds like you hang out with loosers
by the way WHO in amway picks my friends for me if I dont?

We are different and we ALL need money

What does a millionaire pay a year for tax. Imagine how much quicker
the deficit would be paidif everyone paid 100K in taxes.
My goal IS to pay more tax as it means I made more money.


Imagine every one in church putting in 100K in collection instad of
10% of 50 grand.
all you do at work is CONTRIBUTE to the bosses porche
it seems you are DEPENDANT on him. 


you live well compared to who duncan??

you have not secured a retirement for your wife and you cannot send
your kid to harvard

sounds like you failed to provide the best for your family or were you
out drinking and smoking with your buddies in the left over league
while someone is working to provide for their family

as for taking atvantage of familywhen my son had cancer I did NOT have
to go to work.. I doubt that your boss would give you a year off with
pay.
You would say sorry son I have to GO to work.
I have sent my mom on ocean cruses and bought my dad a caddy
can you take atvantage of your family like this??

Poor amway people go to all these business trips?   whats so poor
about a seminar in hawaii   beats  you HAVING to go to work every
monday.. HMMMMM  Yes its too bad about Hawaii

you are fortunate to only have to work one job but you are stupid if
you think it will be there for the next 20 years...Dident your dad
tell you not to put all your eggs in one basket??


duncan I find that intelligent people get ALL the facts before making
an INTELLIGENT desicion.

you trade time for dollars as soon as you cannot put in time  you
donot eat

Time is your chain  and your boss pulls it.  A slave is a slave!!!

wake up duncan   

David Reilley <dreilley@pinc.com> wrote:

>dk@cadvision.com wrote:

>> iN WHAT WAY DUNCAN??? wHAT CULT LIKE HABITS DO WE DISPLAY??
>> 
>> OR DO WE HAVE SOME STRANGE SORT OF RELIGIOUS BELIEF?
>> 
>> WHY WOULD FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES HOOK UP WITH A CULT?

>I don't know, but some Fortune 500 companies supported Dan Quayle and
>Newt Gingrich, and many of them supported Reagan's voodoo economics --
>so I guess they do support cults.
would you please explain?  In what way are we a cult??? are you sure
its not occult??   

BACK UP YOUR ACCUSATION PLEASE
or are you spurting off garbage because you dont know???

a_couple_a_nerds@bc.sympatico.ca (A-Couple-A-Nerds Computer
Consulting) wrote:

>On Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:06:25 GMT, dk@cadvision.com wrote:

>>>Cult
>>
>>iN WHAT WAY DUNCAN??? wHAT CULT LIKE HABITS DO WE DISPLAY??
>>
>>OR DO WE HAVE SOME STRANGE SORT OF RELIGIOUS BELIEF?
>>
>>WHY WOULD FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES HOOK UP WITH A CULT?

>actually, having been to a couple Amway meetings, and reading up on
>mass psychology, Amway uses many of the same techniques that cults and
>religous groups use... but so do many gov'ts...

>not for me thank-you.

>ttyl
>Jason
Whats not for you Jason ....Making money or helping your friends make
money?


and what might those techniques be

seems  most people get up and into a cold car at 7 in the morning to
go kiss the ass of their boss

tell me what technique does he use?

does your book explain this.......... their are thousands of legs to
amway. { yager group, britt group , puryear group etc etc etc.)
all amway all build their business different some even   go door to
door. ( they should be shot)  

Which group is using these tactics( if any)?
 a cult that makes people rich..............hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

you should read some us stats 

you might be shocked when you find the #1 source of income of people
making over 50000 a year is? You might also be shocked when you find
out how many people make that much>

Amway is your only chance against the big  boys. most people cannot
afford a wallmart . He can afford 200 dollars that gives him a level
playing field to compete.

I urge you to read  some books written by REAL financial planners
 try John Sestina.  ( THE #1 IN THE WORLD)  .you will be surprise of
the #1 rated business in the world is.

dk@cadvision.com wrote in article <59iqnn$tss@elmo.cadvision.com>...

> Can you tell me why bill gates and don trump were quoted 
> if they lost their fortunes they would do amway!!!

I can help you with this, dk.  You see, Bill Gates and Donald Trump were
quoted as saying these things because Amway has never let the truth
interfere with their advertising.  If they need a quote, they just make it
up.  Sorta like the rest of the statistics you've been quoting.

> lets see   .... money doubles every 10 years
> 6000 is worth  3000 in 2006
> 3000 in 2016
> 1500  in 2226

Some kind of time/space rift between 2006 and 2016 must cause the
currencies to stabilize.  It may seem odd, but if the Church of Amway
predicts it, it must be true.

Reg 

On Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:06:25 GMT, dk@cadvision.com wrote:

>>Cult
>
>iN WHAT WAY DUNCAN??? wHAT CULT LIKE HABITS DO WE DISPLAY??
>
>OR DO WE HAVE SOME STRANGE SORT OF RELIGIOUS BELIEF?
>
>WHY WOULD FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES HOOK UP WITH A CULT?

actually, having been to a couple Amway meetings, and reading up on
mass psychology, Amway uses many of the same techniques that cults and
religous groups use... but so do many gov'ts...

not for me thank-you.

ttyl
Jason

On Tue, 24 Dec 1996 07:39:52 GMT, dk@cadvision.com wrote:

>Whats not for you Jason ....Making money or helping your friends make
>money?

chuckle, that is why I work hard, for myself.  I bill for 150/hour for
consulting.  my friends... they can do whatever they feel like, I
point them to opportunities, and very often we work together.
as for the "subject-line" of this discusion, I quite often work with
my wife, who also does consulting... she can take care of herself....

>and what might those techniques be

well, off-hand:
   - the pitch.  as with any sales-related techniques (sales is all
psychology). you are questioned rather repeatedly, actually, much as
you seem to do in your posts.  Most of the questions are generalistic,
and can never be given anything other than a "correct" answer ("do you
want to make lots of money... of course"...).

  - the sell.  you are shown a very nice binder, filled with pictures
of expensive houses, and the Amway people who own them.  hmmm, I've
seen this one before, they use it at "time-sharing-condo" scams.  An
office is setup, and hundreds of photographs of "loyal" customers are
on the wall.  Within weeks the office has disappeared.  Thank-fully my
wife and I attened a meeting, and did not enjoy the sales-picth, we
read about the scam in the paper weeks later.  Amway isn't going to
disappear though...

>seems  most people get up and into a cold car at 7 in the morning to
>go kiss the ass of their boss

I don't, I work for myself, and pick and choose my clients.

>Which group is using these tactics( if any)?
> a cult that makes people rich..............hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

how many people are in Amway ?.  how many people are rich ?  provide
me some cold-hard-facts.

>you might be shocked when you find the #1 source of income of people
>making over 50000 a year is? You might also be shocked when you find
>out how many people make that much>

education ?  actually, I disagree education is not the ticket to
success.  I'm reading a great book titled; "If you want to be Rich and
Happy, Don't go to school" by Robert T. Kiyosaki.

happy holidays, I wish you luck with Amway.

ttyl
Jason

David Reilley <dreilley@pinc.com> wrote:

>dk@cadvision.com wrote:
>> 
>> David Reilley <dreilley@pinc.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >dk@cadvision.com wrote:

>> >> WHY WOULD FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES HOOK UP WITH A CULT?
>> 
>> >I don't know, but some Fortune 500 companies supported Dan Quayle and
>> >Newt Gingrich, and many of them supported Reagan's voodoo economics --
>> >so I guess they do support cults.

>> would you please explain?  In what way are we a cult??? are you sure
>> its not occult??

>I never said YOU are a cult.  READ THE THREAD, MAN>

>You asked "Why would Fortune 500 companies hook up with a cult?"  I
>simply pointed out that they have a record of doing so.  Didn't say a
>word about you -- whoever "you" is.  Take a pill, DUD

what cults are  joint ventured with fortunr 500 ,companies??

On Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:56:01 GMT, bdonovan@execulink.com (Bill
Donovan) wrote:

>I don't speak for Jason, but:
>
>Earning money's definitely for me.  I do it by providing services for
>people.  I don't earn it by badgering other people to earn more money, by
>badgering people to earn more money, by badgering people to earn more money,
>by badgering people to earn more money.....

yup, I have to agree (Jason here).
hey, wait a minute, this is a comparison I just can't give up.
Duncan, you are constantly bringing up "kissing your bosses butt",
well, doesn't a boss badger people to earn more money exactly like an
Amway rep ?... don't you have to kiss your "sponsor's" butt ?

>Helping my friends make money?  That's not for me.  I "use" my friends to
>have a good time, exchange experiences, do interesting things, and explore
>common interests.

eactly, unless I go into business with my friends, it's not my
problem... they are, after all, friends...  I do have seperate
business, and pleasure lives, and I like to keep them that way.

>In the last conversation I had with him, I explained that I wasn't coming
>over if he was going to even mention "the plan".  He swore up and down he
>wouldn't mention it again.  I went over to his place, and he brought up "the
>plan".  The poor bastard couldn't help himself.  I haven't returned a phone
>call since.

> Sad

indoctrination.  sad indeed.

>------------------------------------------
>Bill Donovan / bdonovan@execulink.com
>http://www.execulink.com/~bdonovan/

ttyl
Jason

"Reg Natarajan" <RegNatarajan@agt.net> wrote:

>dk@cadvision.com wrote in article <59iqnn$tss@elmo.cadvision.com>...

>> Can you tell me why bill gates and don trump were quoted 
>> if they lost their fortunes they would do amway!!!

>I can help you with this, dk.  You see, Bill Gates and Donald Trump were
>quoted as saying these things because Amway has never let the truth
>interfere with their advertising.  If they need a quote, they just make it
>up.  Sorta like the rest of the statistics you've been quoting.

>> lets see   .... money doubles every 10 years
>> 6000 is worth  3000 in 2006
>> 3000 in 2016
>> 1500  in 2226

>Some kind of time/space rift between 2006 and 2016 must cause the
>currencies to stabilize.  It may seem odd, but if the Church of Amway
>predicts it, it must be true.

>Reg 

sorry should indicate
6000 is worth 3000 in 2006
1500in 2016
750 in 2026
 based on the last70 years i dont think the next 20 are goiing to
change. 

SCARRY THOUGHT

dk@cadvision.com wrote:

> >education ?  actually, I disagree education is not the ticket to
> >success.  I'm reading a great book titled; "If you want to be Rich and
> >Happy, Don't go to school" by Robert T. Kiyosaki.

>  you are rite there!!
> ever notice
>   the BIGGER the education
> THE smaller THE CAR

Perhaps that's because the uneducated have something to prove so they
show off with big cars  -- it certainly isn't because people with less
educatin make more money.  In Canada therre is a direct positive
correlation between level of education and income.  The further you
went  inschool, the more money you are earning 10 years later.  So let's
stop the bullshit in this thread, and stick with the facts.  (Mine come
from Statistics Canada.)

On Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:06:25 GMT, dk@cadvision.com wrote:

>Duncan Ritchie <Duncan.Ritchie@HQIMS.ssc.ssc-asc.x400.gc.ca> wrote:
>
>>dk@cadvision.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Duncan Ritchie <Duncan.Ritchie@HQIMS.ssc.ssc-asc.x400.gc.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>> >dk@cadvision.com wrote:
>>> >> No amway is not for every one but the only 5% of the population makes
>>> >> over 70000 a year
>>> 
>>> >The problem with Amway is not the products, it is the cult around "the
>>> >business".   Amway people become sub-humans controlled by the mother
>>> >ship.   Star Trek explains this through the Borg.
>>> you say cult ...is that cult or occult .Please tell me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>>Cult
>
>iN WHAT WAY DUNCAN??? wHAT CULT LIKE HABITS DO WE DISPLAY??
>
>OR DO WE HAVE SOME STRANGE SORT OF RELIGIOUS BELIEF?
>
>WHY WOULD FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES HOOK UP WITH A CULT?
>

I can name a few...., 

How about telling potential recruits NOT TO DISCUSS the presentation
of Amway to others before making up their minds on whether to join or
not??  (this is a true story, happened to a friend of mine about 1
month ago)  

My brother is law was badgered into joining AMWAY to keep a contract
deal with his company.  The guy who recruited him basically held him
over the barrel until he joined.  This kind of behavior is repulsive.


And my husband was approached by an AMWAY member in Toys R Us a few
years ago.  The man made small talk with my husband about the children
playing, and then proceeded to somehow introduce himself and get my
husband's name.  Then we got a PHONE CALL from him a few weeks later
(he must have looked up our name in the phone book) to ask if he'd
like to attend a business meeting.  This is harrassment as far as I'm
concerned.  He had NO business doing that and it ticked me off
big-time.  

Everything in Amway seems weird to me.  It's all too hush-hush.  I
don't do business with people who have something to hide, and AMWAY
gives me this feeling.  Right from the way they ask you to "attend a
business meeting" but refuse to come out and say what it is in the
beginning.  

Am I against all companies like Amway and just have a bad attitude
towards this type of marketing altogether? No, I don't believe so.  I
buy TUPPERWARE on an ongoing basis.  They do not use these tactics to
recruit their employees and I do not feel that pressure to join just
because I want some of their products.  

AMWAY gives me a weird feeling.  

Tracey

>>Whats not for you Jason ....Making money or helping your friends make
>>money?

>chuckle, that is why I work hard, for myself.  I bill for 150/hour for
>consulting.  my friends... they can do whatever they feel like, I
>point them to opportunities, and very often we work together.
>as for the "subject-line" of this discusion, I quite often work with
>my wife, who also does consulting... she can take care of herself....
you exchange time for dollars........what happens when you cannot
perform{ accident etc.)   do you get paid.?  Amway is like mcdonalds
more than 20000 world wide  each open 8 hours a day . how many hours
is that? Does it compare to your 8 hours a day.
Next year you are a slave to your business . You have to perform .  as
soon as you stop putting in time ... you stop! You missed the concept
of RESIDUAL income.

I believet it is a husbands responability to take care of the
family....I have taken care of my wife!

>>and what might those techniques be

>well, off-hand:
>   - the pitch.  as with any sales-related techniques (sales is all
>psychology). you are questioned rather repeatedly, actually, much as
>you seem to do in your posts.  Most of the questions are generalistic,
>and can never be given anything other than a "correct" answer ("do you
>want to make lots of money... of course"...).
 look at tv or read flyers in my mailbox about SAVING me money
coupons, billboards etc. etc. 
you pretty much classified the free enterprise system as a cult

you called use a cult..... now tell me 

WHAT MAGICAL MINDCONTROLLING TECHNIQES DO WE USE?

" in general" is an opinion
  
>  - the sell.  you are shown a very nice binder, filled with pictures
>of expensive houses, and the Amway people who own them.  hmmm, I've
>seen this one before, they use it at "time-sharing-condo" scams.  An
>office is setup, and hundreds of photographs of "loyal" customers are
>on the wall.  Within weeks the office has disappeared.  Thank-fully my
>wife and I attened a meeting, and did not enjoy the sales-picth, we
>read about the scam in the paper weeks later.  Amway isn't going to
>disappear though...
My house is no time share and I own my bmw
Amway IS the most sought after companie by fortune 500 companies
Even at&T
Which paper was this scam in . I will bet you 100 dollars it was not
amway.
QUOTE your source.
>>seems  most people get up and into a cold car at 7 in the morning to
>>go kiss the ass of their boss

>I don't, I work for myself, and pick and choose my clients.
 So do amway distributers. You are not doiing me a favor by getting
in. I am doiing you a favor. All you do charge me for my time. You
cannot show me how to make money. 
>>Which group is using these tactics( if any)?
>> a cult that makes people rich..............hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>how many people are in Amway ?.  how many people are rich ?  provide
>me some cold-hard-facts.
I just did but you can go look them up yourself!!
Define rich
rich to some is millions.... rich to some is 1000 extra a month to
keep the wife home.    Rich to some is 250 extra

We do 8 billion dollars a year, #3 in japan.
The question is NOT does Amway work.
The question is can YOU do Amway?
>>you might be shocked when you find the #1 source of income of people
>>making over 50000 a year is? You might also be shocked when you find
>>out how many people make that much>

>education ?  actually, I disagree education is not the ticket to
>success.  I'm reading a great book titled; "If you want to be Rich and
>Happy, Don't go to school" by Robert T. Kiyosaki.
 you are rite there!!
ever notice
  the BIGGER the education
THE smaller THE CAR


see ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave.........

steint@cadvision.com (Tracey L. Stein) wrote:

>Tracey Wrote:
>>I can name a few...., 
>>start naming
>>>How about telling potential recruits NOT TO DISCUSS the presentation
>>>of Amway to others before making up their minds on whether to join or
>>>not??  (this is a true story, happened to a friend of mine about 1
>>>month ago)

>You wrote:  
>>your rite I tell my potential recruits to LET ME tell them. That way
>>my potential recruit can sponser that person.If you tellthem about
>>amway they will ask you a question that you may not be able to answer
>>and you will loose your credibility.
>>Your " advisor " knows nothing about amway or he would be in.
>>chances are he is in that 95% category who retires broke. What advice
>>could he give you.
>>why dont you ask don trump or bill gates or john sestina  . newt
>>gingrinch, pres ford. lee iacocca ross perrot  or any other
>>millionaire what they think of amway.
>>I bet if you gave your adviser a million dollars he would blow it(
>>check stats on lottery winners)  unless your adviser is a millionaire
>>he cannot tell you how to make it and his advice useless.
>>rich people have rich habits 
>>poor people have poor habits
>>if you take the money from the rich and gave it to the poor in10 years
>>the rich will have their money back and the welfare will be back on
>>welfare.
>>If your adviser is in life where you want to be than listen to him.
>>But dont listen to me ... I,M FREEEEEEEEEEE

>I wrote:
>I am confused as to whom you are speaking of when you refer to my
>"advisor".  Is it the person who was doing the recruiting?  Or the the
>person who was approached by the amway member?  Regardless of who it
>was.... I disagree..., the only thing Amway has in mind when they ask
>you not to discuss the "meeting" with anyone before making a decision
>is that they will not make an "informed" decision.  They won't have
>the benefit of hearing all of the Amway (horror) stories from their
>friends and family.   Amway doesn't WANT them hearing all of those.
>Sounds a little like the cults who like their followers to severe ties
>with their family members.  The cult would rather have total control
>of their minds and thoughts.   I would never enter into a business
>agreement without extensive thought and some opinions of my family and
>respected friends.  
you call us a cult 

TELL ME in what way are we cultlike? and what mindcontrol tactics do
we use?
ha I like the one about controling thoughts... when was the last time
you told your boss what you thought of him? He got you controlled real
good!!
you say "they" but Amway is nothing but a warehouse, they do not even
hold meetings .It is us the distributers who hold meetings, and there
are a million legs to amway
who are"they"?
I am an independant business and buy off of amway because they PAY the
best. If walmart paid like amway I would buy at walmart>
Can you tell me the ten forms of income of amway or the pv/bv ratio?
if you cannot answer this  than what do you know about amway?
ask your brotherinlaw this question.
Does your brother in law know more than the president of general
motors?
GM says were ok.

I did not sever ties with my family I buy my mom and dad houses and
cars. Tell me ...Can you support your ma and pa when cpp runs out?
I get paid residual which I can hand down to my family
what does your boss give you?
Of course there are failures in amway
but there are failures in every occupation.
But how many millionaires did your job produce last year?
>>I wrote:
>>>My brother is law was badgered into joining AMWAY to keep a contract
>>>deal with his company.  The guy who recruited him basically held him
>>>over the barrel until he joined.  This kind of behavior is repulsive.
>>true  and your brothers friend has  made no money as well!!
>>but amway is a warehouse and has nothing to do with him.

>You wrote:
>>If he is rude you will boycott him.
>>Just like any other business that is rude . Sears etc
>>I even know lawyers that are crooks and some questionable docters
>>does not mean we are all like that.
>>Ever had a bad big mac?

>I wrote:
>Certainly, he may have been just a bad apple - YOU SAY.  But from all
>of the experiences I have had personally and the ones I have heard my
>friends in Claresholm talk about, this is the norm for Amway.  The
>reason that Amway has such a bad rap isn't because of one bad apple.
>It's their selling and recruiting techniques which are indoctrinated
>into them at the conferences and meetings that they attend.  They
>demonstrate this time, and time again.  And now they have a reputation
>for it. 
>>I 


so all youknow is HEARSAY  and not FACT
Friends tell fishstories
I do not care what my reputation is I,m free
The manager of the bank has "status " and hes at work
go figure!!!
I can bang my secritary, come to work drunk
 and thats acceptable
but do amway to get your family free.
could it be that your boss knows amway works and he cannot control you
if you are free?

INTELLEGENT people get all the facts BEFORE making an INTELLIGENT
decision!!
wrote:
>>>And my husband was approached by an AMWAY member in Toys R Us a few
>>>years ago.  The man made small talk with my husband about the children
>>>playing, and then proceeded to somehow introduce himself and get my
>>>husband's name.  Then we got a PHONE CALL from him a few weeks later
>>>(he must have looked up our name in the phone book) to ask if he'd
>>>like to attend a business meeting.  This is harrassment as far as I'm
>>>concerned.  He had NO business doing that and it ticked me off
>>>big-time.  

>>why???   He was doiing YOU a favor.
>He was a complete stranger.  He was NOT doing me a favor.  He was only
>interested in making me a place on his pyramid so he could make more
How can he make more? SEEMS you do not know amway and the pay
structure?  Just like your brother in law?

PYRAMID SCHEME ?
what kind of pyramid  scheme.?( YOU BETTER THINK HERE YOU MIGHT JUST
DEFINE A JOB)
or worse yet a ponzi scheme like ui or cpp.


>money.   He invaded our privacy and took advantage of a friendly
>conversation and turned it into a business proposition without
>informing my husband that he was basically being interviewed for a job
>that he was NOT looking for.  HE WAS A STRANGER!!! 
>>he will make money wether you get in or not.
>Yes, he probably will, but he will miss out on the recruits thought he
>could get through us.   
wow how many people do you know?
I meet 2 a day for last 6 years 
do your 10 really matter?
I go into india . The population of canada is in one city.

If he invaded your privacy why dident you ask him to leave
sounds like your husband is a push over.
If your husband was good  he would have controlled the conversation
maybee he should brush up on people skills.
>>he offered a pearl to a pig.
>I resent this analogy.  But it's typical of Amway salespeople to put
>down others whom they feel are "below" them.  Part of the reason they
>have that "bad rap" I was refering to earlier.
why  you will be dependant upon the rich after cpp fall 2007 or so 

you have the best business opertunity{ sestina, stanford research,
harvard university} and the only way to get free
and you said no
your loss
Is it such a sin to ask ? ARE YOU OPEN MINDED ABOUT BUSINESS
You will never know what you said no to.
the 20 min could change your lifeas unless you are are an auther you
have no hope of residual income.

SHOW ME A BETTER WAY!!!!!

>>Funny I sponsered a friend of Jean Chretien . He did not ask for his
>>dads permission. did not feel harrassed by my call.. And he makes much
>>more than you do. who do you think you are? sorry but your not that
>>rich.Your are DEPENDANT upon the rich so come down from your high
>>horse.
>Excuse me???? *puzzled look*  How do you know who I am and how much
>money I have?  You know not one single thing about me.  It's not me on
>that high horse..., take a look in the mirror buddy.   And who cares
>who you recruited?  Does that make you any better because you know a
>friend of Jean Chretien?  *LOL*   I'd take a look around before
>telling people that now-a-days  ;)
well your no multi millionaire or you would know more about business
and i dougt you will have 5 million in the bank come the year 2020
so I can pretty much say you fit thr 95% of canadians who retire
broke.
Check stat can.

Know it does not make me better just that i might know a bit more
about whats really goiing on

I do not like him (jean) BUT i can learn from him. I cannot change
things. Persolally I like gst so does ralph and so does jean and i
hope they up it to 15%
 you poor fools who dont know the system!!!!


>>show a millionaire how to make a million ....boom he does it
>>show a poor moron how to make a loosey 100000  he balks......goes back
>>to rich and poor habits.
>>Get an unlisted number if you want no calls.  
>I don't mind getting the odd sales call at home (although they are
>sort of annoying..., aren't they?)  That wasn't my point.  The point
>you missed was that this guy was SLEAZY!!  He was hanging out in Toys
>R Us trying to make business contacts with unsuspecting shoppers.   He
>then invaded my privacy by looking up our name and number in the book.
>I shouldn't have to have an unlisted phone number just because I go
>shopping at Toys R Us.  
why was he sleazy? was he flashing
you stopped to talk 
no thankyou was all you have to say

 I see hookers on the street now thats sleazy but a guy talking
business in a store . come on lady!
good thing hes not on welfare!!

>I wrote:
>>>Everything in Amway seems weird to me.  It's all too hush-hush.  I
>>>don't do business with people who have something to hide, and AMWAY
>>>gives me this feeling.  Right from the way they ask you to "attend a
>>>business meeting" but refuse to come out and say what it is in the
>>>beginning.  
change is strange and iff you dont chage your dead!
>You wrote:
>>I am offering you a favor.   Before I WASTE MY gas MY money but most
>>valuble MY TIME making YOUR business make YOU money. I want to know
>>how teachable you are.  you cannot show me anything nor do I want your
>>advice. I do not need a 50000income nor do I need your mortgage
>>payment. Its called trust.
>Give me a break!  Has it EVER happened that you have driven to the
>home of a recruit, they've been interested and wanted to join , and
>you've said "NO"??  I doubt it.  You'd take any and all recruits
>because you benefit from those who are under you and him.  I believe
>the math is called 'exponantial'.  (don't quote me on that)   It's a
>big cover up at the beginning because they want to hook you with all
>kinds of catch phrases like "do you want to be rich?", etc. and then
>they reveal how to and who they are.
tell me how do i make money off my downline?
again what are the 10 ways to get paid at amway .? that is the answer


no i DO NOT take just anyone . Like i said I would not waste my time
triing to convince you i can find someone else who serious
I have kicked people out and refused entry into my BUSINESS so dont
even suggest that.
I have a group in vancouver I see every 2 weeks to help them.
FIGURE IT OUT     a plane ticket to van every 2 weeks
did I charge my recruits ?I have a group in lethbridge
do I charge them for my hotel ?
This and more + my time comes out of MY pocket not anyone elses
Who pays for my trip to india. It will cost me 15000to go. How long
before that leg shows a profit?
I dont have time to waste on morons

as for other distributers they might ask you 
I wrote:
>! Am I against all companies like Amway and just have a bad attitude
>>>towards this type of marketing altogether? No, I don't believe so.  I
>>>buy TUPPERWARE on an ongoing basis.  They do not use these tactics to
>>>recruit their employees and I do not feel that pressure to join just
>>>because I want some of their products.  

>>   do you like work. 
>yes, actually I do.  And I'm happy about that, as well.
>>seems jobs have produced more poor people than any other method.

><a bunch of other stuff about how great Amway is snipped.....>
why truth hurt??
>I wrote:

>I only responded to your original question of "show us why we are
>cultish" in order to answer the question with my personal experiences
>and the experiences of those close to me.  You responded to my reply
>with rudeness and accusations.   Dave..., you don't know me.   How do
>you think you can make assumptions and (rude) generalizations about me
>and my family without knowing even a basis of information about me?
>Think about that for a minute...and then ask yourself  "who is on that
>high horse?"  
well you jumped us amway guys calling us a cult
made general assumptions and rude generalizations yourself.
you have never been to a rally so how can you judge?

if you banked as much money in the next five years as you did the last
5 years wher will you be?

AND WHAT ABOUT YOUR KIDS FUTURE


i thought about my high horse
hey WE ARE the JONES
imagine by the year 2000 we will spliit20 billion dollars
life is sweet.

check this stat out ...more money has changed hand in the last15 years
than at any time in history!!!

CASH IN FOLKS!!!
>Thank you for your time,
>Tracey Stein

>ps.  Oh, and Dave... maybe make use of your spell check before sending
>your posts.  Some of your mistakes are pretty glaring and repeated so
>often that they really make you look alot lower on the totem pole (or
>is it pyramid?) than you really are.

ah inever could spell so i sponsered a teacher
but he to busy getting people free

I have grade 12  no status and no job 

free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

David Reilley <dreilley@pinc.com> wrote:

>dk@cadvision.com wrote:

>> >education ?  actually, I disagree education is not the ticket to
>> >success.  I'm reading a great book titled; "If you want to be Rich and
>> >Happy, Don't go to school" by Robert T. Kiyosaki.

>>  you are rite there!!
>> ever notice
>>   the BIGGER the education
>> THE smaller THE CAR

>Perhaps that's because the uneducated have something to prove so they
>show off with big cars  -- it certainly isn't because people with less
>educatin make more money.  In Canada therre is a direct positive
>correlation between level of education and income.  The further you
>went  inschool, the more money you are earning 10 years later.  So let's
>stop the bullshit in this thread, and stick with the facts.  (Mine come
>from Statistics Canada.)
check these out dave
only 5% of poulation makes over 80 grand /year 






seems like 80% of millionaires are self made with grade 10
check out what stats can says the average income is for people who
retire at 65  and post it.

Check out how many university grads get a job in their choosen field
but i gus a gas jockey could be a chemical engineer!!
soorryit just makes you smarter than the next guy in ui line
please post your results

elvis made 18 million last year and next year 
smart or wwhat

steint@cadvision.com (Tracey L. Stein) wrote:

>On Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:06:25 GMT, dk@cadvision.com wrote:

>>Duncan Ritchie <Duncan.Ritchie@HQIMS.ssc.ssc-asc.x400.gc.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>dk@cadvision.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Duncan Ritchie <Duncan.Ritchie@HQIMS.ssc.ssc-asc.x400.gc.ca> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> >dk@cadvision.com wrote:
>>>> >> No amway is not for every one but the only 5% of the population makes
>>>> >> over 70000 a year
>>>> 
>>>> >The problem with Amway is not the products, it is the cult around "the
>>>> >business".   Amway people become sub-humans controlled by the mother
>>>> >ship.   Star Trek explains this through the Borg.
>>>> you say cult ...is that cult or occult .Please tell me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>>Cult
>>
>>iN WHAT WAY DUNCAN??? wHAT CULT LIKE HABITS DO WE DISPLAY??
>>
>>OR DO WE HAVE SOME STRANGE SORT OF RELIGIOUS BELIEF?
>>
>>WHY WOULD FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES HOOK UP WITH A CULT?
>>

>I can name a few...., 
start naming
>How about telling potential recruits NOT TO DISCUSS the presentation
>of Amway to others before making up their minds on whether to join or
>not??  (this is a true story, happened to a friend of mine about 1
>month ago)  
your rite I tell my potential recruits to LET ME tell them. That way
my potential recruit can sponser that person.If you tellthem about
amway they will ask you a question that you may not be able to answer
and you will loose your credibility.
Your " advisor " knows nothing about amway or he would be in.
chances are he is in that 95% category who retires broke. What advice
could he give you.
why dont you ask don trump or bill gates or john sestina  . newt
gingrinch, pres ford. lee iacocca ross perrot  or any other
millionaire what they think of amway.
I bet if you gave your adviser a million dollars he would blow it(
check stats on lottery winners)  unless your adviser is a millionaire
he cannot tell you how to make it and his advice useless.
rich people have rich habits 
poor people have poor habits
if you take the money from the rich and gave it to the poor in10 years
the rich will have their money back and the welfare will be back on
welfare.
If your adviser is in life where you want to be than listen to him.
But dont listen to me ... I,M FREEEEEEEEEEE

>My brother is law was badgered into joining AMWAY to keep a contract
>deal with his company.  The guy who recruited him basically held him
>over the barrel until he joined.  This kind of behavior is repulsive.
true  and your brothers friend has  made no money as well!!
but amway is a warehouse and has nothing to do with him.
If he is rude you will boycott him.
Just like any other business that is rude . Sears etc
I even know lawyers that are crooks and some questionable docters
does not mean we are all like that.
Ever had a bad big mac?

>And my husband was approached by an AMWAY member in Toys R Us a few
>years ago.  The man made small talk with my husband about the children
>playing, and then proceeded to somehow introduce himself and get my
>husband's name.  Then we got a PHONE CALL from him a few weeks later
>(he must have looked up our name in the phone book) to ask if he'd
>like to attend a business meeting.  This is harrassment as far as I'm
>concerned.  He had NO business doing that and it ticked me off
>big-time.  
why???   He was doiing YOU a favor.
he will make money wether you get in or not.
he offered a pearl to a pig.
Funny I sponsered a friend of Jean Chretien . He did not ask for his
dads permission. did not feel harrassed by my call.. And he makes much
more than you do. who do you think you are? sorry but your not that
rich.Your are DEPENDANT upon the rich so come down from your high
horse.
show a millionaire how to make a million ....boom he does it
show a poor moron how to make a loosey 100000  he balks......goes back
to rich and poor habits.
Get an unlisted number if you want no calls.
>Everything in Amway seems weird to me.  It's all too hush-hush.  I
>don't do business with people who have something to hide, and AMWAY
>gives me this feeling.  Right from the way they ask you to "attend a
>business meeting" but refuse to come out and say what it is in the
>beginning.  
I am offering you a favor.   Before I WASTE MY gas MY money but most
valuble MY TIME making YOUR business make YOU money. I want to know
how teachable you are.  you cannot show me anything nor do I want your
advice. I do not need a 50000income nor do I need your mortgage
payment. Its called trust.
>Am I against all companies like Amway and just have a bad attitude
>towards this type of marketing altogether? No, I don't believe so.  I
>buy TUPPERWARE on an ongoing basis.  They do not use these tactics to
>recruit their employees and I do not feel that pressure to join just
>because I want some of their products.  
   do you like work.
seems jobs have produced more poor people than any other method.
I would be against that.
ask yourself  what the chances of making a million at my job?

tupperwaregive mlm a bad name because their distributers make very
little
and the SELL!
Even walmart is not in the selling business
THEY are in DISTRIBUTION!
as store makes 1.2% on its money 
go open one and see

Name me one rich avon lady or a millionaire that has tupperware
parties.

If they were so good I m sure Toyota would sell its cars through
tupperware.

Ask your accountant about the implications of purchasing all your day
to day items through your own business..............TAKE THIS ADVISE>

>Tracey
you may not like the name but ask yourself

do you like POVERTY

you need 3-5 million to retire


dave
..........................................freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Tracey Wrote:
>I can name a few...., 
>start naming
>>How about telling potential recruits NOT TO DISCUSS the presentation
>>of Amway to others before making up their minds on whether to join or
>>not??  (this is a true story, happened to a friend of mine about 1
>>month ago)

You wrote:  
>your rite I tell my potential recruits to LET ME tell them. That way
>my potential recruit can sponser that person.If you tellthem about
>amway they will ask you a question that you may not be able to answer
>and you will loose your credibility.
>Your " advisor " knows nothing about amway or he would be in.
>chances are he is in that 95% category who retires broke. What advice
>could he give you.
>why dont you ask don trump or bill gates or john sestina  . newt
>gingrinch, pres ford. lee iacocca ross perrot  or any other
>millionaire what they think of amway.
>I bet if you gave your adviser a million dollars he would blow it(
>check stats on lottery winners)  unless your adviser is a millionaire
>he cannot tell you how to make it and his advice useless.
>rich people have rich habits 
>poor people have poor habits
>if you take the money from the rich and gave it to the poor in10 years
>the rich will have their money back and the welfare will be back on
>welfare.
>If your adviser is in life where you want to be than listen to him.
>But dont listen to me ... I,M FREEEEEEEEEEE

I wrote:
I am confused as to whom you are speaking of when you refer to my
"advisor".  Is it the person who was doing the recruiting?  Or the the
person who was approached by the amway member?  Regardless of who it
was.... I disagree..., the only thing Amway has in mind when they ask
you not to discuss the "meeting" with anyone before making a decision
is that they will not make an "informed" decision.  They won't have
the benefit of hearing all of the Amway (horror) stories from their
friends and family.   Amway doesn't WANT them hearing all of those.
Sounds a little like the cults who like their followers to severe ties
with their family members.  The cult would rather have total control
of their minds and thoughts.   I would never enter into a business
agreement without extensive thought and some opinions of my family and
respected friends.  

>I wrote:
>>My brother is law was badgered into joining AMWAY to keep a contract
>>deal with his company.  The guy who recruited him basically held him
>>over the barrel until he joined.  This kind of behavior is repulsive.
>true  and your brothers friend has  made no money as well!!
>but amway is a warehouse and has nothing to do with him.

You wrote:
>If he is rude you will boycott him.
>Just like any other business that is rude . Sears etc
>I even know lawyers that are crooks and some questionable docters
>does not mean we are all like that.
>Ever had a bad big mac?

I wrote:
Certainly, he may have been just a bad apple - YOU SAY.  But from all
of the experiences I have had personally and the ones I have heard my
friends in Claresholm talk about, this is the norm for Amway.  The
reason that Amway has such a bad rap isn't because of one bad apple.
It's their selling and recruiting techniques which are indoctrinated
into them at the conferences and meetings that they attend.  They
demonstrate this time, and time again.  And now they have a reputation
for it. 
>I wrote:
>>And my husband was approached by an AMWAY member in Toys R Us a few
>>years ago.  The man made small talk with my husband about the children
>>playing, and then proceeded to somehow introduce himself and get my
>>husband's name.  Then we got a PHONE CALL from him a few weeks later
>>(he must have looked up our name in the phone book) to ask if he'd
>>like to attend a business meeting.  This is harrassment as far as I'm
>>concerned.  He had NO business doing that and it ticked me off
>>big-time.  

>why???   He was doiing YOU a favor.
He was a complete stranger.  He was NOT doing me a favor.  He was only
interested in making me a place on his pyramid so he could make more
money.   He invaded our privacy and took advantage of a friendly
conversation and turned it into a business proposition without
informing my husband that he was basically being interviewed for a job
that he was NOT looking for.  HE WAS A STRANGER!!! 
>he will make money wether you get in or not.
Yes, he probably will, but he will miss out on the recruits thought he
could get through us.   
>he offered a pearl to a pig.
I resent this analogy.  But it's typical of Amway salespeople to put
down others whom they feel are "below" them.  Part of the reason they
have that "bad rap" I was refering to earlier.
>Funny I sponsered a friend of Jean Chretien . He did not ask for his
>dads permission. did not feel harrassed by my call.. And he makes much
>more than you do. who do you think you are? sorry but your not that
>rich.Your are DEPENDANT upon the rich so come down from your high
>horse.
Excuse me???? *puzzled look*  How do you know who I am and how much
money I have?  You know not one single thing about me.  It's not me on
that high horse..., take a look in the mirror buddy.   And who cares
who you recruited?  Does that make you any better because you know a
friend of Jean Chretien?  *LOL*   I'd take a look around before
telling people that now-a-days  ;)
>show a millionaire how to make a million ....boom he does it
>show a poor moron how to make a loosey 100000  he balks......goes back
>to rich and poor habits.
>Get an unlisted number if you want no calls.  
I don't mind getting the odd sales call at home (although they are
sort of annoying..., aren't they?)  That wasn't my point.  The point
you missed was that this guy was SLEAZY!!  He was hanging out in Toys
R Us trying to make business contacts with unsuspecting shoppers.   He
then invaded my privacy by looking up our name and number in the book.
I shouldn't have to have an unlisted phone number just because I go
shopping at Toys R Us.  

I wrote:
>>Everything in Amway seems weird to me.  It's all too hush-hush.  I
>>don't do business with people who have something to hide, and AMWAY
>>gives me this feeling.  Right from the way they ask you to "attend a
>>business meeting" but refuse to come out and say what it is in the
>>beginning.  

You wrote:
>I am offering you a favor.   Before I WASTE MY gas MY money but most
>valuble MY TIME making YOUR business make YOU money. I want to know
>how teachable you are.  you cannot show me anything nor do I want your
>advice. I do not need a 50000income nor do I need your mortgage
>payment. Its called trust.
Give me a break!  Has it EVER happened that you have driven to the
home of a recruit, they've been interested and wanted to join , and
you've said "NO"??  I doubt it.  You'd take any and all recruits
because you benefit from those who are under you and him.  I believe
the math is called 'exponantial'.  (don't quote me on that)   It's a
big cover up at the beginning because they want to hook you with all
kinds of catch phrases like "do you want to be rich?", etc. and then
they reveal how to and who they are.

I wrote:
! Am I against all companies like Amway and just have a bad attitude
>>towards this type of marketing altogether? No, I don't believe so.  I
>>buy TUPPERWARE on an ongoing basis.  They do not use these tactics to
>>recruit their employees and I do not feel that pressure to join just
>>because I want some of their products.  

>   do you like work. 
yes, actually I do.  And I'm happy about that, as well.
>seems jobs have produced more poor people than any other method.

<a bunch of other stuff about how great Amway is snipped.....>

I wrote:

I only responded to your original question of "show us why we are
cultish" in order to answer the question with my personal experiences
and the experiences of those close to me.  You responded to my reply
with rudeness and accusations.   Dave..., you don't know me.   How do
you think you can make assumptions and (rude) generalizations about me
and my family without knowing even a basis of information about me?
Think about that for a minute...and then ask yourself  "who is on that
high horse?"  

Thank you for your time,
Tracey Stein

ps.  Oh, and Dave... maybe make use of your spell check before sending
your posts.  Some of your mistakes are pretty glaring and repeated so
often that they really make you look alot lower on the totem pole (or
is it pyramid?) than you really are.

On Fri, 27 Dec 1996 07:37:02 GMT, dk@cadvision.com wrote:
[>check these out dave
[>only 5% of poulation makes over 80 grand /year 
[>seems like 80% of millionaires are self made with grade 10

------- 'Seems like' seems like the beginning of a groundless 
statement to me. Maybe it 'seems like' 80% of the millionaires
you see on tv and in newspapers don't have a high school
diploma. You live in calgary, take a stroll along one of the
mount royal streets and ask people whether they have a high
school diploma. Take a drive along old banff coach road. Ask
some people there. You seem like a guy who can talk to anyone,
you should have no trouble getting answers.

[>check out what stats can says the average income is for people who
[>retire at 65  and post it.

------- I don't know... should I care what trouble the baby boomers
have gottten themselves into? I probably should since I will be
paying for them. Their situation, though, has very little impact on
the potential of me making money.

[>Check out how many university grads get a job in their choosen field
[>but i gus a gas jockey could be a chemical engineer!!
[>soorryit just makes you smarter than the next guy in ui line
[>please post your results

------- Yeah, I bet he could... I think you have your causality
reversed here. I bet a chemical engineer could be a 'gas
jockey', but I highly doubt it would go the other way around.
The way I see it, education provides you with more opportunities.

[>elvis made 18 million last year and next year 
[>smart or wwhat

------- No, dead.
--
 Mariusz Zydyk                           http://www.ucalgary.ca/~mszydyk/
 Prince of Darkness                                     pod@cadvision.com

On Fri, 27 Dec 1996 07:20:14 GMT, dk@cadvision.com wrote:
[>ha I like the one about controling thoughts... when was the last time
[>you told your boss what you thought of him? He got you controlled real
[>good!!

------- When was the last time you told a bigger stranger on the 
street what you thought of his haircut? If you are at all civilized, 
probably never. Is he controlling you?

When was the last time you told your president/prime minister
what you thought of him? Did a team of suits with dark glasses
show up on your doorstep the next day?

Chances are that if I did that I would get into some sort of trouble.
Which is exactly why you don't piss off powerful people. I read the
various booklets and guidelines from amway. Only 1 or 2 complaints
are needed to get you kicked out of amway. So since you are lower
on the pyramid than your upline, you will never piss him off. Amway
is probably more happy to keep him around than you. When you leave,
he gets all of your recruits and your residual income. Is he
controlling you?

[>Of course there are failures in amway
[>but there are failures in every occupation.
[>But how many millionaires did your job produce last year?

------- I can't think of too many occupations that drive people
broke. I can think of only a few that make people very rich.
Those are not "occupations". All of those people are self employed.
How many millionaires has amway produced in the last year? How
many people failed? What is the ratio? Is it better than ratios for
other occupations?

[>INTELLEGENT people get all the facts BEFORE making an INTELLIGENT
[>decision!!

------- Hmm.... have YOU ever looked at the numbers? According to 
Amway, these are the numbers:

Annual salse: $5.4 billion
Distributors: 1.8 million

Some math now: (refer to a calculator if unclear)
Per capita sales: $3000/yr
Average profits (with 30% profit margin): $900/yr

Seeing as most distributors are even below the 25% range, the
average income is well under $1000/yr.

Some people estimate that the average income is $780, but the average
distributor buys $1,068 worth of goods from amway. Add on expenses
such as gas and phone bills, lost time and you have a huge net loss.

So what exactly lured you into this line of business? Did you have
the facts before you joined? Seems like a loosing business to me.

[>>He was a complete stranger.  He was NOT doing me a favor.  He was only
[>>interested in making me a place on his pyramid so he could make more

[>How can he make more? SEEMS you do not know amway and the pay
[>structure?  Just like your brother in law?

------- Uhm... well, not only did you not go out and check the facts 
for yourself, you also neglected to read the literature provided by 
amway when you join. It states very clearly that the more the people
under you sell (or buy or recruit), the more YOU make. I believe this
is called residual income. YOU can actually kick back and let the
people under you generate all the money. YOU just collect. There are
even nice charts and diagrams to get this point across.

[>Is it such a sin to ask ? ARE YOU OPEN MINDED ABOUT BUSINESS
[>You will never know what you said no to.
[>the 20 min could change your lifeas unless you are are an auther you
[>have no hope of residual income.
[>SHOW ME A BETTER WAY!!!!!

------- I understand that a good investement portfolio can perform 
quite nicely. And it is probably less risky than someone's chances
of making it big in amway.

[>I have a group in vancouver I see every 2 weeks to help them.
[>FIGURE IT OUT     a plane ticket to van every 2 weeks
[>did I charge my recruits ?I have a group in lethbridge
[>do I charge them for my hotel ?

------- Well, supposing I just join amway. Can I fly to vancouver 
every 2 weeks to meet with my group?

[>Who pays for my trip to india. It will cost me 15000to go. How long
[>before that leg shows a profit?

------- If I had a deal coming down in india worth hundreds of 
thousands of dollars, I would go too. I would borrow to go. The
average amyway distributor can't even dream of going anywhere.

[>check this stat out ...more money has changed hand in the last15 years
[>than at any time in history!!!
[>CASH IN FOLKS!!!

------- Check out this prediction:

more money will change hands in the next 10 years than at any time in
history.

Or how about this no-brainer:

more money changed hands in 1960-1980 than at any time in
history before that. There is always money to be made. Your
statements are just as meaningless as soon as make them.
--
 Mariusz Zydyk                           http://www.ucalgary.ca/~mszydyk/
 Prince of Darkness                                     pod@cadvision.com

On Fri, 27 Dec 1996 07:20:14 GMT, dk@cadvision.com wrote:
[>ha I like the one about controling thoughts... when was the last time
[>you told your boss what you thought of him? He got you controlled real
[>good!!

------- When was the last time you told a bigger stranger on the 
street what you thought of his haircut? If you are at all civilized, 
probably never. Is he controlling you?

When was the last time you told your president/prime minister
what you thought of him? Did a team of suits with dark glasses
show up on your doorstep the next day?

Chances are that if I did that I would get into some sort of trouble.
Which is exactly why you don't piss off powerful people. I read the
various booklets and guidelines from amway. Only 1 or 2 complaints
are needed to get you kicked out of amway. So since you are lower
on the pyramid than your upline, you will never piss him off. Amway
is probably more happy to keep him around than you. When you leave,
he gets all of your recruits and your residual income. Is he
controlling you?

[>Of course there are failures in amway
[>but there are failures in every occupation.
[>But how many millionaires did your job produce last year?

------- I can't think of too many occupations that drive people
broke. I can think of only a few that make people very rich.
Those are not "occupations". All of those people are self employed.
How many millionaires has amway produced in the last year? How
many people failed? What is the ratio? Is it better than ratios for
other occupations?

[>INTELLEGENT people get all the facts BEFORE making an INTELLIGENT
[>decision!!

------- Hmm.... have YOU ever looked at the numbers? According to 
Amway, these are the numbers:

Annual salse: $5.4 billion
Distributors: 1.8 million

Some math now: (refer to a calculator if unclear)
Per capita sales: $3000/yr
Average profits (with 30% profit margin): $900/yr

Seeing as most distributors are even below the 25% range, the
average income is well under $1000/yr.

Some people estimate that the average income is $780, but the average
distributor buys $1,068 worth of goods from amway. Add on expenses
such as gas and phone bills, lost time and you have a huge net loss.

So what exactly lured you into this line of business? Did you have
the facts before you joined? Seems like a loosing business to me.

[>>He was a complete stranger.  He was NOT doing me a favor.  He was only
[>>interested in making me a place on his pyramid so he could make more

[>How can he make more? SEEMS you do not know amway and the pay
[>structure?  Just like your brother in law?

------- Uhm... well, not only did you not go out and check the facts 
for yourself, you also neglected to read the literature provided by 
amway when you join. It states very clearly that the more the people
under you sell (or buy or recruit), the more YOU make. I believe this
is called residual income. YOU can actually kick back and let the
people under you generate all the money. YOU just collect. There are
even nice charts and diagrams to get this point across.

[>Is it such a sin to ask ? ARE YOU OPEN MINDED ABOUT BUSINESS
[>You will never know what you said no to.
[>the 20 min could change your lifeas unless you are are an auther you
[>have no hope of residual income.
[>SHOW ME A BETTER WAY!!!!!

------- I understand that a good investement portfolio can perform 
quite nicely. And it is probably less risky than someone's chances
of making it big in amway.

[>I have a group in vancouver I see every 2 weeks to help them.
[>FIGURE IT OUT     a plane ticket to van every 2 weeks
[>did I charge my recruits ?I have a group in lethbridge
[>do I charge them for my hotel ?

------- Well, supposing I just join amway. Can I fly to vancouver 
every 2 weeks to meet with my group?

[>Who pays for my trip to india. It will cost me 15000to go. How long
[>before that leg shows a profit?

------- If I had a deal coming down in india worth hundreds of 
thousands of dollars, I would go too. I would borrow to go. The
average amyway distributor can't even dream of going anywhere.

[>check this stat out ...more money has changed hand in the last15 years
[>than at any time in history!!!
[>CASH IN FOLKS!!!

------- Check out this prediction:

more money will change hands in the next 10 years than at any time in
history.

Or how about this no-brainer:

more money changed hands in 1960-1980 than at any time in
history before that. There is always money to be made. Your
statements are just as meaningless as soon as make them.
--
 Mariusz Zydyk                           http://www.ucalgary.ca/~mszydyk/
 Prince of Darkness                                     pod@cadvision.com

dk@cadvision.com wrote:
> 
> David Reilley <dreilley@pinc.com> wrote:
> 
> >dk@cadvision.com wrote:
> 
> >> >education ?  actually, I disagree education is not the ticket to
> >> >success.  I'm reading a great book titled; "If you want to be Rich and
> >> >Happy, Don't go to school" by Robert T. Kiyosaki.
> 
> >>  you are rite there!!
> >> ever notice
> >>   the BIGGER the education
> >> THE smaller THE CAR
> 
> >Perhaps that's because the uneducated have something to prove so they
> >show off with big cars  -- it certainly isn't because people with less
> >educatin make more money.  In Canada therre is a direct positive
> >correlation between level of education and income.  The further you
> >went  inschool, the more money you are earning 10 years later.  So let's
> >stop the bullshit in this thread, and stick with the facts.  (Mine come
> >from Statistics Canada.)

> check these out dave
> only 5% of poulation makes over 80 grand /year
> 
> seems like 80% of millionaires are self made with grade 10

What's you source.

> check out what stats can says the average income is for people who
> retire at 65  and post it.

If you have a point to make, then YOU do the research and post the
results.  At this point you have asked an unanswered question -- which
proves nothing.  Don't forget to cite your source.


> Check out how many university grads get a job in their choosen field
> but i gus a gas jockey could be a chemical engineer!!
> soorryit just makes you smarter than the next guy in ui line
> please post your results

If you have a point to make, then YOU do the research and post the
results.  At this point you have asked an unanswered question -- which
proves nothing.  Don't forget to cite your source.


> elvis made 18 million last year and next year
> smart or wwhat

Elvis?  Are you serious?


None of this changes the fact that there is a direct correlation between
education and income - a correlation you denied in your earlier post.