🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <26138@life.ai.mit.edu> gwydion@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Basalat Ali Raja) writes:

   One cannot help but ask...  Israel is the only democracy in the middle
   east?  How many of the Palestinians whose very lives and destiny are
   directly controlled by the Zionist government in Jerusalem have had a
   chance to vote against or in favour of this government?

While I agree with you, in the sense that I think the people living
on the west bank and in the gaza strip should have a right to vote, 
there are several problems. As I understand it, they will not become
citizens of the jewish state, and thus will not have the right to
vote. I know of no country that allow non-citizens to vote.

   Spare me the lawyer's answers, that these people are immigrants, or
   refugees or whatever.  They have been there for generations, in many
   cases much longer than their Jewish neighbours who CAN vote.  And yet
   you claim that Israel is a democracy?  Only if you accept as a
   corollary that the Palestinians are not human.  Will you do that?

The mentioned disturbs me as well, the families in question
(while not all the individuals, as one can hardly claim that a 
newborn have been there for generations) have a cultural and
historical background in the region. Thus they should have 
some say in decisions that affect them. The problem mentioned 
above remains, and also; I fail to deduce that they are inhuman 
from the fact that they cannot vote. If that is the case, all 
children are not human, as well as any person not being Israeli.
The point here is that with the common model of a democracy, you 
have to be a citizen to vote. (In the classic greek democracy, 
only _free_ men had the right to vote, females and slaves weren't
regarded as 'human' I suppose.) 
If we demand that the palestinians have the right to vote they 
either _have_ to become Israeli citizens, or they _have_ to have
a piece of land to become independent citizens in.
I regard both as 'positive' solutions, provided they get
full rights in the first, and that they themselves don't 
discriminate others in the second. 
My bet is that the second have the greatest chance of success, but, 
as always with young states there will be quite some civil unrest
before there is a democratic structure formed, especially since
firearms is very common in the area.
Sigh, I _tried_ to keep this short. That's what you get for a long
slow sunday. :-)
--

--------------------------------------------------------
Jonas Flygare, 		+ Wherever you go, there you are
V{ktargatan 32 F:621	+
754 22 Uppsala, Sweden	+